second patch vote

[Borsook]

What's with all the false hope all of a sudden? There's not going to be another patch. If there is, it won't improve the AI which the devs bragged about before release. It will just include handicaps for the player at higher difficulties and allow the AI to cheat. Easy way out. The last patch was about a year ago, there has been talk of another since then, and there won't be another one. The game is no longer making money.

True the last patch was long ago, but US/Can release was quite recent. And semi-improvemnt is always better than no improvement, isn't it?

[weaz]

true, but we keep our fingers crossed now :)

[Nerevarine]

I don't think the AI is so bad, however, I'd appreciate some more REALISM in the game.
For example, I sieged then assaulted an enemy city, it was their last one.
I was leading the fight personally, and after a grueling battle, I creamed all of his forces and killed one of his marshalls.
His army surrendered and there was just one more marshall running around.

Suddenly, a new army appears running out of some building, and then some other units. I kill them off when they attack me.
Then, another appears riding out to attack me.
So, here is my problem:
1) If it says the guy surrendered, the battle should immediately end and not make me run around all over the map having to kill his leader off anyways.
2) When you siege/assault a city, in battle-mode, the computer should not be allowed to continually generate new-whole-armies "on the fly" (right away/in the middle of combat). This is totally unrealistic. How in the hell can they train and equip new armies in a matter of seconds?
So what I'm really fighting is the computer's pocket book. Only when he runs out of money, will he stop producing them and having them charge my armies. This is like cheating.
3) I've been a fan of Vesselin's games for quite awhile (I love and still play Tzar:Burden of the Crown and Celtic Kings was good), and Knights of Honor is great. However, he says in his interview the game is designed for ppl who just more or less want to have a no-seat-of-your-pants type of RTS game. KoH, I'm sorry to say, IS a seat-of-your-pants type of game. You can play in 0.5 Speed Mode but you'll get impatient.
The problem with RTS/Strategy games like this, is the RTS factor, and constantly being bombed by messages and having to pause the game or adjust the speed always, to slow it down so you have time to review each message and decide what to do. Realistically, kings had time to think about strategy and such before making a decision. In this game, it's arcadish, and you gotta make very quick decisions. It's very fast-paced, in my opinion. And the micro-management ****s. It's hard to get into the atmosphere of the game when you get bombed with messages all the time, not to mention some country out of the blue decides to attack you and you're getting invaded, maybe some rebels, AND have to build up yer cities.
4) Micromanagment ****s. There should be local governors that can build up your city, and you just tell them what you want, or maybe a queue-fuction would be nice (maybe a system like that in Galactic Civilizations). I see the computer cities later in the game, and they got everything built up. Some of my cities are still only half-built up and that's cuz I don't have time to continually go around to each and every city in my growing empire, and tell them "one at a time" what to build.
It's a real pain in the butt. There should be some kind of "Auto-Build" feature.
5) I encountered this fortified camp one time, and they totally wiped out 5 of my armies. I didn't get it. And in the strategy map were able to fire arrows at my armies. My problem with this is: this is lame. How can they be fortified and yet strike my army which is technically about "a hundred miles away" from them?
Also, do they have unlimited ammo? And, do they have unlimited food? Can't their fortifications be sieged? For example, in the crappy movie "Druids" (I believe in EU it was called "Vecengetorix" or however you spell that dude's name) in the last battle the Romans built a fortification outside a Gaul city. The Gaul leader had his armies in response...siege the Roman fortification. Unfortunately, his generals disobeyed his orders and attacked the fortification and got everyone killed. But it would be nice to be able to siege enemy fortified camps.
I still don't get how they can bomb you even if yer dozens of miles away.
Their ranged weapons don't go THAT far.
6)It is pretty difficult to make money and the realism of the economy is shoddy anyways. You really do need a gazillion Marshalls to conquer "the world" and once yer done, you simply don't have enough people to POLICE whatever tiny province decides to revolt here and there. You constantly are gonna have to send your armies around chasing them down. That yer limited in the number of armies you have is totally unrealistic. By the time they get to the rebels, the rebels will have burned down a whole region. It's kinda dumb to think there could be a city with the capability to produce a powerful army, but decide to "sit back and wait for the marshall" while rebels burn everything down around them.
7) Spies: I wasn't too impressed with the number of things spies could do to another country. Given some of the weakness of diplomacy, this didn't help.
8) Diplomacy could use some more options. Atmosphere-wise, it would be cool, if say, some kingdom could have the option to "Hold a faire" to boost local morale of the populace and, say, invite other kingdoms, or host some events (jousting competition?) and such, that could help relations with other kingdoms instead of just "Give money" or "Give land".
About giving money...I rather like the ability to decide how much money to give, rather than picking from a fixed amount. If I have 50,000 gold, the minimum I can give is like 9,000 or something, I dunno. But that's too much money to give out to someone who might one day, decide they hate you and attack you, cuz the AI is like that in this game, and if you give them that 9,000, well, then they hate you and now have 9,000 to spend towards killing you off. Not good!
9) Marshalls lead armies, but I still think a town should be able to produce "defenders" without having the marshalls there. I also think it should take some time for units to be produced cuz they need to be "trained". I know some things were done for game balance and for what it is...it's good. But there's downsides to it, and I'm sure the designers considered them when they put the game together.
Ultimately, having just a few armies to perform conquering duties AND policing duties for a large, growing empire, leaves alot to be desired. And yeah, I find this game to be too fast paced to be able to really enjoy it how I'd like.

These are just the things I'd like to see improved/changed/whatever.
I actually do love the game, I've been waiting quite a long time for a game like this to come along, and that it's designed by the same guy who did Tzar is even better (when I heard the dying soldier screams I realized this. Heheheh.).
There's quite a few games out there in this Strategic/RTS-style genre and I think this is one of the best ones. However, I feel it kinda falls apart into an all-out "war game" and all the other cool things, like diplomacy, trade, etc. take a back seat.
That was the problem for me with Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri...lots of cool features and things to do...but it always breaks down and becomes a "pure war game": build units, attack, kill, conquer.
That reminds me, lastly...when I'm about to totally wipe a kingdom out, how come they rarely (in fact, I don't think I can recall them ever had) try to make peace and offer a deal so I don't wipe them out?

[weaz]

I truly hope that BSS doesn't quit this game and that they learn from their mistakes and continue with Koh, with some finetuning , this game could rock ! even for a large public

[LordEmperor]

Ya,he's rite . Every game got advantage and disadvantage. It is impossible to be no disadvantage. If BSS can do their best, we will sure support KoH forever, and also BSS too, rite guys?

[Elvain]

I think that one of the biggest problems about this game was damn suc*ing testing.

Any single mod seems to be tested better than entire game. If the testing was better, the first patch could came later and would have better improvements included instead of fixing basic bugs that should have been found during the testing...

[weaz]

you're probably right, but that's too late now. What I think is important is that they build up a reputation of helping the fans by making patches, adding things, etc.. Like blizzard, their games got the best support ever. And every gamer knows/

[LordEmperor]

Ya.. Blizzard entertainment got 3 well-known game that is :
1.) Warcraft III ( Everyone should noe this)
2.) Diablo 2
3.) Starcraft

Well...this three game very nice...But i only play Warcraft III before. =(

[Nerevarine]

I actually don't like Warcraft III, I think that game is too anal and constricting. I like strategy games where you can focus more on strategy than "scraping the barrel" for resources only to have your precious "squad"-sized army get suddenely creamed by one-whole-unit from the other side. Good story/single-player I suppose though.
Plus, WC2 had some memorable music. WC3 music I completely forget everytime I play it or see it played. Sounds funny but those small things can make a huge difference.
The music in Knights of Honor, for example, is utterly awesome. A bit cheesy-synthesizer sounding at times (that's okay! I listen to Bal-Sagoth. heh.), but utterly awesome and CATCHY<---which is extremely important.
In fact, I have it playing in the background right now. It really helps add to the atmosphere of the game, and is great to listen to.
You can add a terrific, epic soundtrack to a mediocre game, and it'll help tie people into the game (more). Knights of Honor is NOT a "mediocre" game, but a really good game (despite its flaws), so it's all the more better deal we get. ;)
Sometimes, you might get a great game with utterly abyssmal music, take Morrowind for example.
Well-produced music, but the score is SLEEP-inducing and too ambient and dreary. For the kind of game it is, it should be really kick-but and energetic, cuz the previous Elder Scrolls game "Daggerfall" was like that and I have to say Daggerfall's old medieval "midi"-soundtrack is better than Morrowind's cuz of the songs being just much better. Some remind me of Knights of Honor's music just a small bit.
In fact, I think I'm to replace Morrowind's music files with Knights of Honor's music. Heh.

[weaz]

1. there 's nothing wrong with morrowind's music :) the main theme is the BEST of gaming history, maybe except dungeon siege / jeremy soule is great

2. nerevarine ? I m trying to become in morrowind :p

[Elvain]

due to ignorant Sunflowers' patch policy, I have found Anti-Sunflowers club (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=5706)

[Richard]

I'm with you Elvain.!

[Doux]

Maybe I should found a pro-Sunflowers club then.. :wink:

[Elvain]

let's go and found it.

At least there will be some life on the forums... :biggrin:

I wonder what would be the reason of founding that club...

[conquestare legionare]

Ya.. Blizzard entertainment got 3 well-known game that is :
1.) Warcraft III ( Everyone should noe this)
2.) Diablo 2
3.) Starcraft
(

your missing world of warcraft(thou not a strategy game) with 3million accounts registerd and thats not only because its a great game its also because they love there projects and they never stop supporting there community and games,they patch world of warcraft every week!! every week!!,even if its only a minor bug you wont notice gameplay ,and they make such patchs because the community told em too , not like sunflowers 2months for a little confirmation and not a single updated info . and yes your truly right blizzard has the best support ever given to games.

[Doge]

IMHO, three things need to be done to the military aspect of the game to improve game playability:

(1) AI armies must work together. AI nations should always invade with two armies if they can and attack the same target with two armies. Too often, the AI splits it armies and they can be picked off one by one with a much weaker player army.

(2) AI nations should fill their defenses (all 6 slots) with the best troops when they have the money. Also, AI nations should fill their armies when they have the money & grain.

(3) Give the AI nations a +3 army moral bonus on hard setting.

When I play any strategy game (except KoH), the AI on hard settings can overwhelm you if you do not have a great strategy against them. "KoH Hard" is "industry standard easy".

PATCH PLEASE!

[weaz]

and there 's still no word from sunflowers or BSS;

[Doux]

Nope, no response yet.

Doge gives some good examples, which come down to improving the AI, which is hardly moddable. ALso, Sunflowers could release better editors, e.g. of .RLE files.

[weaz]

Also something small that could be very cool:

- When you capture an enemy spie in your court, you don't always have to torture him in order to know which country he is from. He might also just tell you, if you intimidate him ( without kingdom drop) , ALSO the country that sent him, doesn't know he's captured, only if he is excecuted.

When you capture this spy you can use him as double spy. He might gather info for you , or even mislead the enemy with wrong information about you. There's so much you can do with that.
Ofcourse , when the former kingdom of the spy is stonger than you, he might betray you.

[weaz]

Knights of Honor 2 : wishlist
---------------------------------------

1. 3D battle view, keep the 2D map view as it is now: it looks good.

2. Add seasons to the game: snow in winter, falling leaves in fall, ...

3. More variety in the kingdoms: more nation specific units,
more buildings that you can only build at a certain place..
Examples:
- Skirmishers for all provinces ( training grounds required)
- Longboats ( for all scandinavian countries, speed bonus +20% and Ability to sail large rivers!)
- Prison: By appointing a capital city, that city has a +20 growth bonus and +5 moral. You can build
a prison here where captured marshalls are being held and interrogated so you have more room
in your royal court.
- Gallow pool: decreases rebellion risk.
- ...

4. Humour! More options for diplomacy.

5. relations between countries have to endure longer.

6. improved AI: allied nations work together, and you can get support of your allies when being assaulted.


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That's everything in great lines. I have everything in my head :p

so when I might get hit by a car , that would be a terrible loss for manking

vapaana " weaz