second patch vote

[typhoeus]

The AI sux beans dont lets us down out of profit, come on ya wankers. It took me 3 months to get this game working and i know it took longer for others so you owe us that much.

[Elvain]

good examples, Doge.

I'd find just one diference between KoH and diplomacy.

If you buy Diplomacy you have big chance for the patch being released as Paradox is well known as a company that supports their games. Okay, they release them "unfinished" and then release svereral patches to improve it as the gamers wish..

But KoH? It was say half-finished and we got one patch and now we denamd further support for more than a year! And what is the worst thing, over the year we are IGNORED by Sunflowers. They are incapable even to state what is their strategy with this game.

They don't care us, they already got our money and it is the only thing they are interested in. And I say that those were the last money I gave them

[Picotrain]

Doge: You started by complaining that there is not enough support for Sunflowers/BSS games, so you're boycotting them. This experience has made you a wiser consumer. Then you said that the Diplomacy game has the same problem as KoH. So, you're boycotting Paradox, too. That would lead me to believe that you feel that Paradox does not support their games. I was pointing out that this is simply not the case. Like I've pointed out, Paradox has released three patches for this game already, and they are undoubtedly going to do more. Why do they put out more patches? They already have your money. They're doing it because A) the fan base wants it B) The fan base buys their games C) So, it's in their best interests to improve their games. So, some people are disappointed with Diplomacy, they're trying to make it better. I would be lying if I said that they don't have any good games, and I'd also be lying if I said that they didn't continue to support their games YEARS after their initial release. This is rare in a company. So while Diplomacy is quite crappy (I also followed the game's development and decided against getting it early on) it does not merit a boycott of Paradox based solely on a lack of support by said company.

[weaz]

Not only is a patch for fixes, but It would also be "a geste" , a present for the die hard fans we all are. Now I feel there is no one listening to our complaints..

Good companies would listen to complaints and use the comments to improve their product. But no, neglect us.

This gives a bad reputation, which I love to help spread!

:angry: :angry: Anti sunflowers club :angry: :angry:

[Doge]

Doge: You started by complaining that there is not enough support for Sunflowers/BSS games, so you're boycotting them. This experience has made you a wiser consumer. Then you said that the Diplomacy game has the same problem as KoH. So, you're boycotting Paradox, too. That would lead me to believe that you feel that Paradox does not support their games. I was pointing out that this is simply not the case.

However, after visiting their boards, I find Diplomacy has the same AI problems as KoH (the AI is dumb).

So far after THREE patches, Paradox still has not fixed the "dumb AI". Paradox does support their games, they produce multiple patches to fix bugs that should have been fixed before they release the game. (As far as I know, Sunflowers needed only one patch to fix the bugs in KoH. With it came some gameplay improvements.)

So far the verdict is not out whether Paradox will fix the AI to make Diplomacy a fun game to play on single player. If Paradox releases a patch that greatly improves the AI, then I will take Paradox off my boycott list. For now, they remain on it.

Diplomacy:

the AI is dumb and you ll beat it after 2 games
so the game is only worth online : but as theres noone ever on the server the game is just a waste

Agree with you. A very bad AI. :sad:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229656

[Traveller]

Man, there are so many fastidious people in here... :nono:

[weaz]

I'm not talking about a balance patch ( modders like Elvain and others can event balance the AI more ) but about a patch that makes KoH alive again.
If you make a small patch with ( let's say) 6 new units, every KoH player will dust off his copy and play again with new combinations. Players love extras.

And there are enough things you can easily add:
- viking longboats , can sail large rivers and have combat bonus
- peasant militia ...

and much more: buildings: a prison for captives etc.

[Rolf]

I only just started playing KoH and I have to say that its AI is better than many other strategy games I've played. Regarding patches, I think there has to be a paradigm shift among game companies--most of them are only after the quick buck and so released flawed games that may or may not get patched depending on market forces. Can you imagine the auto industry operating like that? We can all recall games with great promise that were dumped after the game company made their bucks and moved on. But I think there has to be a separation between patches designed to correct inherent gameplay and technical problems (people should be able to get money back even six months later on games that simply don't work--I'm thinking of Joywood's medieval roleplay game where the original flawed game functioned poorly but better than the patched version, and then they released a "new" game that still had problems that weren't fixed). But AI improvements are only going to come after longterm development. Just follow how chess programming works. Nobody can expect to cobble together a good AI under time constraints. Given all this, I would demand patches that address gameplay and technical issues or money back--just like a recall of any defective product) but I would be willing to pay as a loyal customer for regular AI improvements doen to keep a game alive--I don't mean just bells and whistles in an ad-on, but true AI progression. I think the mod industry is a good example of game industries benefiting from customer loyality and fandom. AI improvement needs that kind of company and player support.

[Doge]

Man, there are so many fastidious people in here... :nono:

I know, 270 fastidious people to 8 non-fastidious people. :wink:

[Picotrain]

Could someone in a position of authority (Sunflowers, BSS) please give us a statement about whether or not there will be a second patch? We've waiting for months for such a statement, and though you are in no way obligated to produce a 2nd patch, I do feel that the fanbase is entitled to a statement about the likelihood of one.

[weaz]

Fruijin asked us for patience, but there are limits...

[Angryminer]

You propably won't ever get a statement of Sunflowers or BSS again on that matter. That's my "statement of likelihood".

Angryminer

[Webmaster]

there is still hope ... sometimes things take regrettably a long long time ... i know it's not quite the answer you want ot hear.

i still believe.
(so say we all)

[Traveller]

Maybe you still believe, Webbi, but we don't anymore. Or at least I don't...

[Elvain]

there is still hope ... sometimes things take regrettably a long long time ... i know it's not quite the answer you want ot hear.

i still believe.
(so say we all)
Please, tell your bosses that we have heard this "statement" more than 10 times and it is exactly the statement that pisses us off. Tell them to keep such statement secret, if they don't want to make us angry.

I'm not sure what is worse if statemet "keep hoping we do nothing" or silence. :scratch:

[Webmaster]

nope thats not the statement!
if there was a "NO", i would tell you!
a "YES" will also be spread via newsletter.

ask yourself, which benefit does SF or BSS gain, if not saying anything?
waiting is boring and totally unsatisfying ... i know ... but both companies have other games in focus now.

begging for your patiences ist not going to work ... but saying nothing is also bad ...

[qorda]

"waiting is boring and totally unsatisfying ... i know ... but both companies have other games in focus now."

:angel: The trouble is that ignoring present and focussing on future is kind of statement that politician make who wish public not to critisize them for their shoddy policies. Do these companies think that the customers will pull money out of their pockets for "other games in focus " if they dont get a good "after sales service"; wake up :eek:

[Lighthope]

there is still hope ... sometimes things take regrettably a long long time ... i know it's not quite the answer you want ot hear.

i still believe.
(so say we all)

I have listed Knights of Honour as "Unsupported/No Longer Supported by Company".

I just drop by the forum every once in a while to see if people are still posting. But I don't look for any official support anymore because there isn't any.

Maybe there will be a KOH2. After all, the fun LOTR1 gave birth the the Great LORT2. (And then something happened, Satan got involved, and LOTR3 reared its ugly head.)

With EU2 and M:TW2 on the horizon, even KOH may be resurrected for a sequel.

But a further patch of KOH1? Sure. Oh, and the sky tomorrow will be a bright plaid.

(so say we all)

Is that a Battlestar Galactica reference?

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - The best way to remember your wife's birthday is to forget it once.

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[aaronsmith]

YES it defnitly need an second patch to improve the AI
:angel:

[Syagrius]

YES it defnitly need an second patch to improve the AI
:angel:

Yep, good game but with better AI it could be great