City names vs. province names

[Kuno of Gersenau]

The work of Elewyn on this board is great! :cheers:

It would be really sad if the game is nothing for you, but I think this risk is very very small .:)

[Elewyn]

Pleas, stop it guys. I only like this game and, like you all, want it to be as good as possible.

@Henrik, I'm affraid that regarding this (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/knightsofhonor/screens.html?page=109) screenshot it don't look very good for isle of Funen :(

@kvzoltan, have you any good ideas for Hungary?

(I used Kossice because of moving realm Carparhia too eastwards tp have Pressburg/Bratislava/Pozsony as capital)

[Gorgoroth]

Originally posted by Elewyn
Pleas, stop it guys. I only like this game and, like you all, want it to be as good as possible.


You are the biggest addict and it is all good! We need true fans! :cool:

[Elewyn]

Great honor for me to see castle of Transylvania with name Klaussenburg :)

btw, list is finelized :) and edited here (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=26867#post26867)

[Finellach]

What about these provinces: Brandenburg/Meissen and Mecklenburg/Brandenburg? Shouldn't Mecklenburg be separate province(soemthing like Mecklenburg/Holstein) and then the logically would be province Brandenburg/Meissen?

Btw. does anyone know which is more correct: MeckleMburg or MeckleNburg? I saw them both used :confused:

[Elewyn]

it's simple.
Brandenburg is in both of them and should be as one separate realm in KoH.
Originally it was as 113 (now Meissen/Brandenburg), that's why it is included in name. I prefere only Meissen
and have 112 as Brandenburg. I just don't know which of them use as Brandenburg and which with the other name (Mecklenburg/Meissen)

IMO best is:
112 Brandenburg
113 Meissen

[Finellach]

Interesting. I would prefer Mecklenburg as separate province as opposed to Brandenburg. In any case I don't like use of two names for one province. Especially one so important as Brandenburg.

[Frank Fay]

Mecklenburg and Brandenburg are provinces in KoH...

[Elewyn]

That's the word of the man!
:cheers:

so... (http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=26867#post26867)

[Vytis]

If developers would decide to go with native names then :
#123 - Lietuva
#124 - Zemaitija
#121 - Prusija

[Finellach]

I doubt they will go with native names...but it would be great.

But still native names(those I can help with):
76. Makedonija - Ohrid
78. Raška
79. Srbija - Beograd
80. Bosna - Sarajevo
87. Hrvatska - Gradec/Zagreb(german Agram)
88. Dalmacija - Zadar(italian Zara)

Also the name of Vojvodina "capital" should be IMO in Hungarian, thus SZERÉM. Slavic versions would be Srem(Serbian-ekavian), Srijem(Croatia-ijekavian). But as I said my opinion is that it should be in Hungarian since Vojvodina was Hungarian(AFAIK). Also I am not sure about the name Vojvodina. This is slavic name and Vojvodina was not slavic before the invasion of Turks.

Btw. todays name of Sirmium is Mitrovica(Srijemska or Sremska Mitrovica). The name was changed in 14th century. First it was changed to Dimitrovica and later to Mitrovica. Perhaps the best would be to name it Mitrovica although it would not be entirely historicaly correct since it would cover only very late period only. Besides since the name of the province is Vojvodina it would be logical that the name of the "capital" also has it's slavic name.

Frank :go:
I am glad Mecklenburg and Brandenburg are separate. It's just as I wanted... :D

Edit: Oh and what about Zeta Elewyn? I see here only Rashka and Serbia(these two are actually almost the same thing IMO)
I am sure I saw Zeta in one of the screens thats why I would say that the #78 would be Zeta(todays Montenegro - Crna Gora) and #79 Raška/Srbija (Rashka/Serbia).
Perhaps Frank or Frujin can confirm or decline. ;)

[Todclerc]

Just asking, but isn't there a region missing in the list Brabant?
In your list you speak of
12 Flandre*-Brugge
13 Champagne-Reims
106 Lorraine(Lothringen)-Köln(Cologne)
107 Friesland-Utrecht

In history there are more little "countrys" in that region like Holland, Gelre, Brabant, Luik, ...

If you want you can check this map
http://www.literatuurgeschiedenis.nl/nederlanden.asp

if it is possible i would like the folowing changes asp
* Flandre (Vlaanderen) - Brugge (Bruges)
* Brabant - Brussel (Brussels) (we know that this is historically not correct, because brabant had 6 capital city's brussel - leuven - mechelen - antwerp - tienen & 's hertogenbosch)

107 Friesland-Utrecht => if you tell this in the nederlands, you are going to be killed ;)
* Friesland - Leeuwaarden
That are 2 totally different places, the fries people are a totally different people (with a own language), their capital was Leeuwarden. They were merely a people of trade, primarly looking at the german neighbours.
* Utrecht - Utrecht
Utrecht was a country lead by a bisshop, capital Utrecht. It had nothing to do with friesland
* Holland - Den Haag
Then you are forgetting Holland, the little country was even then independant.
* Liege (Luik) - Luik (Liege)
Also their is the matter of the bisshop of luik (he had a lot of influence in the region and did not depend totally on the german neighbours like mentioned on the map.
* Gelre (Gelderland)
Also their is no mentioning of Gelre (Gelderland) on the map, they stayed indeppendant until Keizer Karel (Emperor Charles V) added them in 1543 to this empire.
* Luxemburg - Bouillon
Luxemburg is also a part that got merged with germany oin the map, but was even independant.
Furthermore their is also the principality's of henegouwen, namen, limburg. But these were "minor" country's in the region.

A few maps that support my case can be found here
http://www.wazamar.org/Nederlanden/lage-landen-3.htm
http://www.roman-emperors.org/nouest12.htm (where luik is incorrect reffered as limburg)

I hope that this will come into consideration and will be changed in the game.
excuse me for my bad english, is not my motherlanguage.

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Todclerc
Just asking, but isn't there a region missing in the list Brabant?
In your list you speak of
12 Flandre*-Brugge
13 Champagne-Reims
106 Lorraine(Lothringen)-Köln(Cologne)
107 Friesland-Utrecht

In history there are more little "countrys" in that region like Holland, Gelre, Brabant, Luik, ...

If you want you can check this map
http://www.literatuurgeschiedenis.nl/nederlanden.asp

if it is possible i would like the folowing changes asp
* Flandre (Vlaanderen) - Brugge (Bruges)
* Brabant - Brussel (Brussels) (we know that this is historically not correct, because brabant had 6 capital city's brussel - leuven - mechelen - antwerp - tienen & 's hertogenbosch)
* Friesland - Leeuwaarden
That are 2 totally different places, the fries people are a totally different people (with a own language), their capital was Leeuwarden. They were merely a people of trade, primarly looking at the german neighbours.
* Utrecht - Utrecht
Utrecht was a country lead by a bisshop, capital Utrecht. It had nothing to do with friesland
* Holland - Den Haag
Then you are forgetting Holland, the little country was even then independant.
* Liege (Luik) - Luik (Liege)
Also their is the matter of the bisshop of luik (he had a lot of influence in the region and did not depend totally on the german neighbours like mentioned on the map.
* Gelre (Gelderland)
* Luxemburg - Bouillon
Luxemburg is also a part that got merged with germany oin the map, but was even independant.
Furthermore their is also the principality's of henegouwen, namen, limburg. But these were "minor" country's in the region.

A few maps that support my case can be found here
http://www.wazamar.org/Nederlanden/lage-landen-3.htm
http://www.roman-emperors.org/nouest12.htm (where luik is incorrect reffered as limburg)
Ofcourse you're right. But there is a little problem. Lokk at aproximate area of a realm(province) for KoH and look at area of all those provinces. You have the same problem in Rheinland and Westphalia, whole Italy, France, almost whole Europe has smaller regions than realms of KoH.
So they've chosen the most important or largest provinces and those smaller are insid them.

I know almost everything you posted. But you simply cannot put there all those historical provinces.
If you have better idea how to call 2 realms of historical Low countries, tell me. But there are only two, not more.

Utrecht in Friesland was dismissed, it was based on little diferent map and diferent name:
my original suggestion: map (http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions/ttt0a80d99125e627e8.jpg): 102 Holland with Utrecht as capital, not because Utrecht is capital of Holland, but because in middle ages Utrecht was mmost important city of that area. If you have better idea how to deal with situation of 2 realms (http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions/ttt3a192c3c2a998b70.jpg) in low countries (lokk at areas, not names), Me and I think also devs will appreciate any better idea.

btw. Don't speak to me about Luxembourg, we had some of our most famous kings of Luxembourg origin in Bohemia, I will really like having independent realm/province of Luxembourg as part of Bohemian kingdom (or kgdm of Bohemia part of Luxembourg? ;))

And also :go: those maps are really great. How is possible to see also years1200, 1400 etc.? especially with this map (http://www.literatuurgeschiedenis.nl/nederlanden.asp) - just pity it's in dutch :(
Originally posted by Finellach
But still native names(those I can help with):
76. Makedonija - Ohrid
78. Raška
79. Srbija - Beograd
80. Bosna - Sarajevo
87. Hrvatska - Gradec/Zagreb(german Agram)
88. Dalmacija - Zadar(italian Zara)

Edit: Oh and what about Zeta Elewyn? I see here only Rashka and Serbia(these two are actually almost the same thing IMO)
I am sure I saw Zeta in one of the screens thats why I would say that the #78 would be Zeta(todays Montenegro - Crna Gora) and #79 Raška/Srbija (Rashka/Serbia).
Perhaps Frank or Frujin can confirm or decline. ;) I'm open for every better idea, so I'm gonna change it a little. I only wonder you told me so late :D mate

[4zzY]

just saw a strange thing
main city of Bosna - Sarajevo
:eek:
you know when Sarajevo was founded
in 17th century i think or maybe 16th bun not earlier
it will be the same to do this
as to put Munich as a capital of Bavaria
it is strange that bss did this
i mean they are from Bulgaria - the same region practically
such mistakes are not of course a big deal
but they ruin the good impression from hte other detailes

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by 4zzY
it is strange that bss did this
i mean they are from Bulgaria - the same region practically
such mistakes are not of course a big deal
but they ruin the good impression from hte other detailes Nobody's fault but mine :(
I did the list, only where "*"-'s are it's also used by BSS

[Frank Fay]

I can only repeat that KoH is not a History Channel programme. For the sake of a greater appeal we have to make here and there a trade off between accuracy and fun.

[Vytis]

Does it mean that having more accurate names means less fun?

[Frank Fay]

yes for those who know only Sarajevo and these are likely the majority of the buyers

[Gorgoroth]

Hmmmm. :scratch:

[Finellach]

Originally posted by 4zzY
just saw a strange thing
main city of Bosna - Sarajevo
:eek:
you know when Sarajevo was founded
in 17th century i think or maybe 16th bun not earlier

Actually Sarajevo is already mentioned in the 15th century with the arrival of Turks. It was them (Ottomans) who united the surrounding villages, fortified them and formed what is now known as Sarajevo.

Also Sarajevo had similar way of devolping like Zagreb (Agram) although there are some differences in the timeline and the size of the settlements that united. Zagreb was more like a union of two big towns: Gradec(for merchants and normal citizens) and Kraptol which was more like a church district. Sarajevo was union of few smaller villages. In fact when I think Zagreb in terms of genesis is similar to Budapest.

Neverthless I knew of this, but didn't wanted to mention it since I really don't have any idea what would be the best alternative city since Bosnia did not had such major districts. Bosnian population lived mostly in small villages.

In any case I wouldn't mind even if there would be Zagreb(Agram) as opposed to more historicaly correct Gradec(now only small part of todays Zagreb).

Originally posted by 4zzY
[B]it will be the same to do this
as to put Munich as a capital of Bavaria
it is strange that bss did this
i mean they are from Bulgaria - the same region practically
such mistakes are not of course a big deal
but they ruin the good impression from hte other detailes

Hmm...Bosnia and Bulgaria the same region? Technically yes. But objectivaly no. ;)

Frank can you confirm my assumption that region #78 in Elewyn's list is actually Zeta and that #79 is actually Rashka/Serbia?

Originally posted by Elewyn
I'm open for every better idea, so I'm gonna change it a little. I only wonder you told me so late :D mate

Well I haven't noticed it by now, so it's never late if you still have time to make it right. :D
Glad I could help. ;)