City names vs. province names

[Siena]

here are borders of Livonia and Estonia

http://www.lituanus.org/1975/75_4_01.htm

[Elewyn]

Guys, reviving this thread a bit by some changes with my maps and list, so...

here's the list. I hope it's OK (*edit* for better understanding I'll give you english names where possible), changes bold

1 Leinster - Dublin
2 Munster - Cork
3 Ulster - Derry
4 Highlands - Inverness
5 Lothian - Edinburgh
6 York - York
7 Mercia - Lincoln
8 Anglia - London
9 Kent - Cantenbury
10 Wales - Caernarvon
11 Cornwall - Exeter
12 Flandres - Brugge
13 Champagne - Reims
14 Francia - Paris
15 Normandie - Rouen
16 Bretagne - Rennes
17 Anjou - Angers
18 Aquitaine - Bordeaux
19 Auvergne - Clermont
20 Bourgogne - Dijon
21 Savoie - Torino (Turin)
22 Provence - Arles
23 Tolouse - Tolouse
24 Aragón - Barcelona
25 Navarre - Pamplona
36 Castille - Burgos
27 León - León
28 Portugal - Lisboa (Lisbon)
29 Toledo - Toledo
30 Valencía - Valencía
31 Granada - Granada
32 Andalucía - Cordóba
33 Tanger - Tanger
34 Fez - Fez
35 Morocco - Marrakech
36 West Sahara - Figuig
37 Oran - Oran
38 Tahert - Tahert
39 Algiers - Algiers (Alger)
40 Tunis - Tunis
41 Touggourt - Touggourt
42 East Sahara - Wargla
43 West Tripolitana - Jerba
44 East Tripolitana - Tripolis
45 Barka - Cyrene
46 Siva - Siva
47 Alexandria - Alexandria
48 Egypt - Kairah (Cairo)
49 Palestine - Jerusalem
50 Syria - Dimashq (Damascus)
51 Arabia - Akaba
52 Mezopotamia - Mosul
53 Antakya - Antiocheia (Antakya)
54 Kilikia - Tarsus
55 Cappadoccia - Melitene (Malatya)
56 Armenia - Ani
57 Georgia - Suchumi
58 Trabzon - Trapezunt (Trabzon)
59 Sinope - Sinope
60 Anatolia - Ankara
61 Efez - Efez
62 Nicaea - Nicaea
63 Thracia - Constantinopolis (Constantinople)
64 Dobrudja - Karvuna
65 Bulgaria - Tarnovo
66 Solun - Thesaloniki (Solun)
67 Hellas - Athína (Athens)
68 Epiros - Dyrrhachion (Drac, Durrës)
69 Macedonia - Ochrid
70 Vidin - Vidin
71 Serbia - Beograd (Belgrade)
72 Bosnia - Sarajevo
73 Dalmatia - Zadar
74 Croatia - Zagreb
75 Slavonia - Djakovo
76 Vojvodina - Severin
77 Transylvania - Klausenburg (Cluj/Kolozsvár)
78 Hungaria - Esztergom
79 Carpathia - Kossice
80 Pannonia - Pécs
81 Austria - Wien (Wienna)
82 Styria - Graz
83 Venetia - Venezia (Venice)
84 Roma - Roma (Rome)
85 Napoli - Napoli (Naples)
86 Apulia - Bari
87 Sicilia - Palermo
88 Crete - Iraklis
89 Cyprus - Leukosia
90 Sardegna - Cagliari
91 Corse - Ajaccio
92 Toscana - Pisa
93 Genoa - Genova
94 Lombardia - Milano (Milan)
95 Helvetia - Bern/Luzern
96 Tyrolia - Innsbruck
97 Bavaria - Regensburg
98 Würtenberg - Ulm/Stuttgart
99 Alsace - Strassbourg
100 Pfalz - Mainz
101 Lorraine - Köln (Cologne)
102 Friesland - Utrecht
103 Saxony - Bremen
104 Nassau - Nassau/Wetzlar
105 Franconia - Bamberg
106 Brandenburg - Magdeburg/Barandenburg
107 Bohemia - Praha (Prague)
109 Moravia - Olomouc
110 Cracovia - Krakow
111 Silesia - Wrocalw
112 Polonia - Poznan
113 Pommerania - Szcieczin
114 Prussia - Marianberg (Malbork)
115 Mazovia - Warszawa (Warsaw)
116 Volhynia - Luzk (Lutzk)
117 Galicia - Halicz
118 Wallachia - Bucuresti (Bucharest)
119 Moldova - Suceava
120 Podole - Kamenec Podolskij
121 Ukraine - Odesa
122 Krym - Cherson
123 Kuban - Phangoreia
124 Azov - Azov
125 Donetsk - Donetsk
126 Voronezh - Voronezh
127 Chernigov - Chernigov
128 Perjeslawl - Perjeslawl
129 Kiev - Kiev
130 Turovpinsk - Turovpinsk
131 Smolensk - Smolensk
132 Tula - Tula
133 Riazan - Riazan
134 Vladimir - Vladimir
135 Jaroslawl - Jaroslawl
136 Kirilov - Kirilov
137 Moscovia - Moskva (Moscow)
138 Novgorod - Novgorod
139 Polotsk - Polotsk
140 Lithuania - Vilnius
141 Samogitia - Medvegalis
142 Curonia - Mitau
143 Livonia - Riga
144 Estonia - Talinn
145 Finland - Viborg
146 Turku - Turku
147 Norrland - Östersund
148 Svealand - Uppsala
149 Nidaros - Nidaros (Trondheim)
150 Bergen - Bergen
151 Oslo - Oslo
152 Götaland - Kalmar
153 Skaane - Lund
154 Saeland - Odense
155 Jutland - Viborg


PS: those realms you can see on map called "evidence" here (http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions/)

[Siena]

Hi Elewyn,

first, let me tell you, that the map in the Lithuania area and Grand Duchy of Lithuania area looks very good. I still think Curronia is optional, but it is fine :)

I don't like names like Tula, Voronez, Kirilov and Donetsk - I think that at least some of those are quite new :)
I have a few suggestions:

I think 132 should be Riazan. I would suggest getting rid of Tula.
Western part of 137 could become Tver
Move Muskovy(137) a little bit East and South to get rid or remainder of the space that is left after moving Riazan (133) in Tula's place (132)
Tula is not a Medieval name :)

Also, 134,135 - was probably mostly uninhabbited and in the atlas
http://www.euratlas.com/time/nea1300.htm
that area named Viatka...
Still, I am not sure about that.

in the North - change name Kirilov to Karelia. Kirilov sounds like revoliutionary name from XX century Soviet Union :)
Karelia is old name.

I think 146 - should be Finland and 145 - perhaps Lapland, o maybe 136 - Lapland and 145 - Karelia. I am not sure, hopefully somebody from Finland can clarify that.

125, 126 makes sense to rename, because Voronez and Donetsk I think are more contemporary names, that remind me of Soviet Union.

126 - maybe can be Kazan or Astrachan
125 - I have no idea :)

I think the map from Baltics to Black sea looks very good.

:cheers:

[Siautas]

yes map of Baltic sea reagion it's great. Tnx a lot to "Elewyn cartography Ltd.";) :D

[Cru$ader]

how can I get those pictures under my membername?

[Jorghan]

Hmm, I was thinking about Finland again. I am not sure about the towns then, but maybe Viborg should be spelled Wiborg. I'm not sure if that's the same town as you are thinking of. (Because I think Wiborg were built by the russians).

[Lamaz]

Is there something i can do? :)

[Jorghan]

Atlast a fin... Good :)

Give us suggestions for finnish medieval city names, and if you have more ideas, for surrounding regions, such as Sweden.

[Lamaz]

Cities are Turku, Naantali, Rauma and Viipuri/Vyborg.
Those were the "big" ones in mediaval age.

Anything else?

[Lamaz]

"145 Finland - Viborg"
"146 Turku - Turku"

I would change "145 Finland - Viborg" to 146 Finland - Turku.
145 and 135 are difficult. There is Karelia but it isn't so big.
Maybe it will be just part of Russia...

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Cru$ader
how can I get those pictures under my membername?

That's easy enough :)

1. scroll to the top of the screen ( where you are now ! )
2. Click: User CP
3. Click: Edit Options
4. scroll to the bottom of the page, there you'll see a button saying: Change Avatar

It's as easy as that ;)

hope this helps :)

[Elewyn]

Thanks guys.
First to Lamaz:
It's nice. If there are those two realms (can be changed a bit, ofcourse, but I think 2 realms are accurate for Finland)what should be their name. Name must be each different. So what would you suggest?I really don't know.

To others:
136is a problem. I didn't find any town or city there for medieval era and in my map sources there is old monastery of Kirilov. Maybe Karelia should be the name, but it's inly a small area in NW of this realm, but why not...

Tula is such a old town. Here is a link for you (http://tsu.tula.ru/koi/english_version/tula/index.html) Riazan should satay where it is (it fits there on original map I worked with and is extended to east and south)

134, 135 - Jaroslawl (better Yaroslawl) and Vladimir are both old towns where russian princes stayed (Vladimir-Suzdal was one of main principaties after division of Kiev Rus, one of anti-Mongol resistance).

Tver probably can be moved between Moscovia(137) and Novgorod(138) as a new realm.

But biggest problem I have with realms 125 and 126. Kazan is much eastwards in level of Riazan :(
Astrakhan the same, but level of Azov :(

Voronezh was founded as a city later (in XVII) but there was a castle since 1177. The only usable place.
And 125? There is NOTHING in middle ages. Just steppe. "Wild fields" with no centre. So The name should be either "Wild fields" or "Donia" or "Don" by the river Don. :(

[Jarlabanke]

I'm rather sure Viborg was built by Swedes, at least the castle itself.
Viborg was probably spelled Wiborg just as Uppsala was spelled Upsala or Kalmar Calmar.
The realm turku should be called Finland as that's what it was called back then, Finland as a whole was refered to as the "Eastern country" or something like that.
*edit*
Oh right Norrland should probably be Swedish from the begining as the map doesn't show all of it.
The Viborg realm could be called Nyland.

[Elewyn]

Ok, I'll change the names of towns (Wiborg, Upsala...) but realms should have diferent name each :( which?????

[Jarlabanke]

Observe my edit above

[Elewyn]

Oh right Norrland should probably be Swedish from the begining as the map doesn't show all of it.
The Viborg realm could be called Nyland. Thanks
You mean eastern realm of todays Finland, 145.
146 Finland - Turku (or if will Lamaz suggest sth better?)
145 Nyland - Wiborg or Viborg.

Is that right?

Norrland is not Sweedish on maps of early period, because I saw there lived Lapons who are (I think) closer to Fins than Swedes. Correct me please

[Jarlabanke]

The coast of the baltic was Setteled by Swedes rather early, as was the area close to the Norwegian border, further more it can be questioned if they tax the Sami/Lapps as the Norwegians did. The Sami never were that numerous, to this day something like 80 or 90% of the Swedish population is living below Uppsala

[Jorghan]

Well, they are closer lingusticly and ethologically, but Norrland has been a part of Sweden for as long as it has been "civilized". And Finland hardly existed as a state either before Sweden came there. So I think Norrland should be part of Sweden in all eras.

[Elewyn]

OK it's about to be changed.

But as you said Finland shouldn't be part of Sweden before high period. Like almost all "european" tribes north of Danube and East of Rhine didn't establish anything we can call state. First Slavic state were Great Moravia around 820, Croatian (If they were Slavs, as Finellach wrote) duchies and Kiev Rus

[Jarlabanke]

I'm not sure where the different periods begin or end, but they usually say that Erik the holy's crusade in the 1150's is the true beginning of Swedish colonization of Finland.