City names vs. province names

[Finellach]

Yes by the map with numbers it seems that it does not borders with Croatia, but that would be totally wrong and it shows that "number map is not quite good" in first place NHF. After all it seemed to me that the province #86 is placed to the east of Croatia when actually it was north of it as it should be. The grey map is by far more correct than the one with the numbers.

Knowing that I don't agree that Sirmium would be a better name for it. Why? Because this province contains the whole province of Slavonia and Sirmium was never independant. In fact Sirmium was part of "Kingdom of Slavonia". Not to mention Slavonia is by far bigger than Sirmium. To name it Sirmium would be wrong.

The best name for this province in my opinion would Slavonia. To name it Vojvodina is like making a province with parts of Brabant and Flanders with whole Friesland and naming it Belgium. Or even worse naming it Brabant.

Slavonia today marks a province, but this was actually duchy/kingdom that contained whole todays continental Croatia from the west (Zagreb, Varazdin) all the way to the east contain Sirmium and to the small city of Zemun(today part of Belgrade/Beograd). Baranya, Bacska and Banat were under the duchy of Temesvar as I am not mistaken.

[Emhyr var Emreis]

didn't the number of provinces change? I can see some new in last update's screnshots (probably Gelre east of Flandre and south of Friesland

Why Orléans is "Orlean"? does it mean there is separate province of Orleans? I wonder if there is also realm of Paris or something else...

devs, can you, please, reveal names of French provinces?

[Finellach]

I think it would be nice if we would know what are all 150 and then some provinces. ;)

[svallentinus]

Bucharest appeared late(recognized in an official act as Bucuresti:read Bookooreshty at around 1459 by Vlad the Impaler). The capital of Valahia was in medieval times Targoviste-read Trgovyshteh-even Vlad the Impaler was crowned here. The interesting point is that,even there was only one country named Wallachia=Valahia, there were two counties=regions:banatul Oltenia(read Oltenyah),central city Craiova(read Krayova) led by a "ban" and Muntenia(read Moontehnya) with Targoviste mentioned above.

[Finellach]

You had a "Ban"?! Weird...I hear this for the first time. So it seems that not only Croatia and Bosnia had this title, but also Hungary and Romanian principalities. :sick:

[svallentinus]

I would take my chance and ask you if the notion of voievod(read voyeahvod) tells anything..cause I suspect it came from slavon too.The kings in Valahia and Moldova were called that way.
I saw something up in this thread and I want to make a correction.Except for 2(at most 3)small regions deep inside Romania, the rest of Transilvania is inhabited mostly by Romanians nowadays.And it was so since a very long time. I agree you can sympathise with Hungarians.(from a historical point of view they owned Transylvania before Romania was formed...).But I think the majority of people is the thing that counts(think of Kosovo in this line of thought...it was the center of Serbian history, and now is mostly populated with Albanians-I haven't been there,correct me if I am wrong).

And Cluz is actually Cluj or Koloszvar(not so sure about the Hungarian spelling).
And p.s.I don't want to start a huge discussion.Come to Cluj and count the magyars.(no irony,facts).

[Finellach]

I would take my chance and ask you if the notion of voievod(read voyeahvod) tells anything..cause I suspect it came from slavon too.The kings in Valahia and Moldova were called that way.


Well it's Voivoda in Polish(if I am not mistaken) and Vojvoda in Croatian, but this term was not used in Croatia before the globalization. The word came from Serbian language.

Also I must say I don't quite undertand what are you saying. :sick:

P.S. you can edit your posts instead of double and tripple posting which is considered spamming. ;)

[Doggydog]

Umm, in a history book I have it says that the bosnian rulers ruled from a fortified town called Bobovac. Sarajevo definitely shouldn't be in the list . It was founded by the turks quite later. The last bosnian king had to move to Kljuc in 1463, where he surrendered to the sultan when he promised not to kill him. The sultan killed him anyway. Anyway, use one of those two towns (not sure if Bobovac exists anymore, but Kljuc still exists). Not sure about Djakovo being the "capital" of Slavonia, but I don't really know. Zadar was the most important town in Dalmatia tho, that's correct. And where's the Dubrovacka Republika (Republic of Ragusa (Dubrovnik). It's certainly small (the territory), but it had a great navy (trading and nottrading :)), and was one of the greatest trade powers in the Mediterranean.

[Finellach]

Umm, in a history book I have it says that the bosnian rulers ruled from a fortified town called Bobovac. Sarajevo definitely shouldn't be in the list . It was founded by the turks quite later. The last bosnian king had to move to Kljuc in 1463, where he surrendered to the sultan when he promised not to kill him. The sultan killed him anyway. Anyway, use one of those two towns (not sure if Bobovac exists anymore, but Kljuc still exists). Not sure about Djakovo being the "capital" of Slavonia, but I don't really know. Zadar was the most important town in Dalmatia tho, that's correct. And where's the Dubrovacka Republika (Republic of Ragusa (Dubrovnik). It's certainly small (the territory), but it had a great navy (trading and nottrading :)), and was one of the greatest trade powers in the Mediterranean.

Sarajevo most definately existed. It was named Vrhbosna before Turks came and gave it the name Sarajevo. I think the best capital would be Jajce IMO. Since there isn't going to be Slavonia(most likely) it doesn't matter wherer jakovo is the "capital" or not.
Zadar was most important town, but so was Split and not to mention that the "capital" weren't any of those. Croatian kings rulled in Knin.
Republic of Ragusa is too small to be represented in game.

[svallentinus]

Also I must say I don't quite undertand what are you saying. :sick:

My dear Finnelach,what exactly you don't understand?:)

[Finellach]

Well you said there was Ban in Wallachia and then you started talking about Voivoda? Which is used in Romania? Ban or Voivoda?

[svallentinus]

Well you said there was Ban in Wallachia and then you started talking about Voivoda? Which is used in Romania? Ban or Voivoda?
The king wass called voievod.The count equivalent was ban.A vassal of the king.
The king of Romania was called "rege",however.

[Finellach]

Wait? You had two Kings? Or do you meant duke not king?
Ban is the equivalent for Duke in Croatia.

[svallentinus]

Ban=duke(whatever).
Moldavia or Wallachia's king=voievod(till 1700)
Romania's king="rege" since 1865
king(Romanian nowadays translation)="rege"
(Romania is currently a republic)

[Emhyr var Emreis]

:) devs, may I ask something?

I wonder how can those three realms be in the game?
Salzburg (http://www.knights-of-honor.net//english/screenshot.php?screenshot=0145&all=0150|0149|0148|0147|0146|0145|0144|0143|0142)
Tyrolia (http://www.knights-of-honor.net//english/screenshot.php?screenshot=0144&all=0150|0149|0148|0147|0146|0145|0144|0143|0142) and
Carinthia (it was on some screenshot, but now I can't find it.)

they are all in almost the same area in Austria and there is also realm Austria if I can remmber it well. I wonder because there is also Bavaria in this area of south Germany/Austria and I miss it very much in the game. I guess Bavaria always was more important than Salzburg, for example.

Also I am not very sure of it, but it looks like Salzburg is SOUTH of Tyrolia in the game, what is absolutely ridiculous IMO, don't you think? I thin SUNFLOWERS should help BSS a little in this case. Frank? can you please comment this?

[timurlenk]

:) devs, may I ask something?

I wonder how can those three realms be in the game?
Salzburg (http://www.knights-of-honor.net//english/screenshot.php?screenshot=0145&all=0150|0149|0148|0147|0146|0145|0144|0143|0142)
Tyrolia (http://www.knights-of-honor.net//english/screenshot.php?screenshot=0144&all=0150|0149|0148|0147|0146|0145|0144|0143|0142) and
Carinthia (it was on some screenshot, but now I can't find it.)

they are all in almost the same area in Austria and there is also realm Austria if I can remmber it well. I wonder because there is also Bavaria in this area of south Germany/Austria and I miss it very much in the game. I guess Bavaria always was more important than Salzburg, for example.

Also I am not very sure of it, but it looks like Salzburg is SOUTH of Tyrolia in the game, what is absolutely ridiculous IMO, don't you think? I thin SUNFLOWERS should help BSS a little in this case. Frank? can you please comment this?


1. im sure, bavaria is in. never seen it, but any other way would be unbelievable!
2. medieaval tyrolia, salzburg, austria and carinthia are of course not in the same area - not even almost - of todays austria. believe in me, i live here :)
3. tyrolia should be in the southwest of salzburg. the screenshots look like as tyrolia is nothwest to salzburg which would be wrong.

[Emhyr var Emreis]

:)1. im sure, bavaria is in. never seen it, but any other way would be unbelievable!
2. medieaval tyrolia, salzburg, austria and carinthia are of course not in the same area - not even almost - of todays austria. believe in me, i live here :)

1. I hope and I hope it will border on Bohemia
2. of course you are right. I just weanted to say they are VERY close and probably too small to be in the game all. It's like having Anjou, Maine, Poitou and Tourianne from western France in the game all as separate realms and forget Brittany(Bretagne). Another similar example: we have now poll about Low countries, so it's like to have Artois, Brabant, Liege, Holland and Zeeland all in the game and forgot Flandre as the most important province in the region (now I mean REALMS-provinces, not playable fractions)

[timurlenk]

:)
1. I hope and I hope it will border on Bohemia
2. of course you are right. I just weanted to say they are VERY close and probably too small to be in the game all. It's like having Anjou, Maine, Poitou and Tourianne from western France in the game all as separate realms. Another similar example: we have now poll about Low countries, so it's like to have Artois, Brabant, Liege, Holland and Zeeland all in the game and forgot Flandre as the most important (now I mean REALMS-provinces, not playable fractions)


i can see your point.
but dont forget, carinthia, tyrolia & austria were much bigger then their successor countries today are.

e.g. carinthia included parts of todays italy, slovenia, croatia and styria.


but im interested in the final list of all realm...
devs?

[Finellach]

This reminded me. Too bad Elewyn isn't here but I think I finally got how it would be best to do Croatia and Serbia.

IMO it should be like this:

78. Zeta - Kotor or Cattaro
79. Rashka(Raška in native) - Beograd(Belgrade)
80. Bosnia(Bosna) - Vrhbosna*
81. Sirmium - Sirmium(Mitrovica)

87. Slavonia (Slavonija) - Gradec or Zagreb
88. Dalmatia*(Dalmacija) - Zadar(Zara in italian)

*The cpaital of Bosnia is still open to debate. IMO much better choices would be Kljuc or Jajce than proposed Vrhbosna(today Sarajevo).

Also I don't think there should be distinct provinces of Croatia and Serbia since these two kingdoms and today countries are composed of different geographical entities(realms). For example Croatia is composed of continental part Slavonia and coastal part of Dalmatia. Serbia was also composed of continental part which was Rashka and coastal part which was Zeta (today Montenegro).
Also Vojvodina didn't existed before 20th century when counties like Vidin, Backsa and Sirmium were united into one entity that is today Vojvodina.

This is also historically correct and it also corresponds with provinces in KoH as can be seen in these maps ===>
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1000.htm - in this map we can see Kingdom of Croatia
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1200.htm - This map shows Rashka and Zeta before they united into Kingdom of Serbia
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1300.htm - This map shows Croatia divided into duchies under Hungarian rule and united Rashka and Zeta into Kingdom of Serbia.

I hope devs are reading this.

[Emhyr var Emreis]

:)but im interested in the final list of all realm...
devs?
hmmm... I am with you, I would like to see the final list of provinces :)

btw, I was told by my friend to announce this map of realms (http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions/ttt0865c933292bbeb9.jpg), probably just for future of KoH.
My opinion is that it is more than perfect and he must be crazy to do such work :silly:
PS: his greetings to all of you :)

and the numbers mean:
BRITAIN:
1-Orkney-Inverness
2-Highlands-Aberdeen
3-Lothian-Edinburgh
4-York
5-Mercia-Lincoln
6-Anglia-London
7-Kent-Cantenbury
8-Wessex-Salisbury
9-Cornwall-Exeter
10-Wales-Caernarfon
11-Leinster-Dublin
12-Ulster-Derry
13-Connaught-Limerick
14-Munster-Cork

IBERIAN PENINSULA:
15-Galicia-Santiago de Compostela
16-Asturia-Oviedo
17-Castilia-Burgos
18-Leon
19-Porto
20-Lisbon
21-Extremadura-Badajoz
22-Andalicia-Cordoba
23-Granada
24-Murcia
25-Toledo
26-Valencia
27-Catalonia-Barcelona
28-Aragon-Zaragoza
29-Navarra-Pamplona

FRANCE:
30-Aquitaine-Bordeaux
31-Poitou-Poitiers
32-Anjou-Angers
33-Brittany(Bretagne)-Nantes
34-Normandy-Rouen
35-Francia(Ille-de-France)-Paris
36-Champagne-Reims
37-Burgundy-Dijon
38-Blois-Orleans
39-Auvergne-Clermont
40-Languedoc-Tolouse
41-Gothia-Carcassonne
42-Provence-Arles
43-Dauphiné-Lyon

ITALY:
44-Savoy-Torino
45-Liguria-Genoa
47-Pisa
48-Tuscany-Florence
49-Corse-Ajaccio
50-Sardiny-Cagliari
51-Sicily-Palermo
52-Rome
53-Naples
54-Calabria-Reggio
55-Apulia-Bari
56-Romagna-Ravenna
57-Venetia-Venice
58-Lombardia-Verona
59-Milan

GERMANIA:
60-Helvetia-Bern
61-Franche Comté-Besancon
62-Alsace-Strasburg
63-Lorraine-Metz
64-Luxemburg
65-Brabant-Brussel
66-Flandre-Brugge
67-Holland-Hague
68-Gelre-Arnhem
69-Friesland-Groningen
70-Bremen
71-Braunschweig
72-Mecklenburg-Lübeck
73-Brandenburg
74-Saxony-Magdeburg
75-Meissen
76-Thuringia-Erfurt
77-Nassau
78-Rheinland-Köln(Cologne)
79-Palatinat-Mainz(Mayence)
80-Franconia-Frankfurt
81-Swabia-Ulm
82-Bavaria-Nürnberg
83-Tyrolia-Innsbruck
84-Carinthia-St.Veit
85-Krain(Carniola)-Kranj
86-Styria-Graz
87-Austria-Wien

POLAND AND BOHEMIA:
88-Moravia-Olomouc
89-Bohemia-Prague
90-Lusatia-Görlitz
91-Silesia-Wroclaw
92-Polonia-Gniezdno
93-Pomerania-Gdansk
94-Kujawia-Torun
95-Mazovia-Warsaw
96-Sandomierz-Sandomierz(or Lublin)
97-Krakow

HUNGARY AND WESTERN BALKANS
98-Upper Hungary-Pressburg(Bratislava/Poszony)
99-"Carpathia"-Kosice/Kassa
100-Transylvania-Klausenburg(Cluj/Kolozsvár)
101-Sirmium
102-Kalocsa
103-Alföld-Buda or Esztergom
104-Pannonia-Pécs
105-Slavonia-Djakovo
106-Croatia-Zagreb(Gradec)
107-Bosnia-Sarajevo(Vrboshna)
108-Dalmatia-Zadar (Zara)
109-Zeta-Kotor (Cattaro)
110-Rashka-Beograd (Belgrade)

SOUTHERN BALKANS:
111-Macedonia-Ochrid
112-Drac
113-Epiros-Arta
114-Achaia-Athens
115-Crete-Iraklis
116-Thessalia-Larissa
117-Solun-Thesaloniki
118-Constantinople
119-Thrace-Adrianopilis
120-Vidin(Bdin)
121-Moesia
122-Bulgaria-Turnovo
123-Severin
124-Wallachia-Bucharest
125-Dobrudzha-Karvuna

SOUTHWEST RUSSIA:
126-Budzak-Odessa
127-Moldova-Suceava
128-Podole-Kamenec Podolskij
129-Jedisan(Ukraine)
130-Kiev
131-Zhytomir
132-Galicia-Galicz
133-Volyn-Luzk
134-Polesia-
135-Turov-Pinsk
136-Podlasia-Grodno

BALTIC REGION(Baltic Lands and Scandinavia):
137-Lithuania-Vilnius
138-Prussia-Marienburg
139-Kaunas
140-Samogitia-Medvegalis
141-Kurland-
142-Livonia-Riga
143-Estonia-Talinn
144-Jutland-?
145-Sealand-Odense
146-Skaane-Lund
147-Ost Götaland-Kalmar
148-Svealand-Uppsala
149-West Götaland-?
150-Oslo
151-Stavanger
152-Bergen
153-Trondheim
154-
155-Norsland
156-Gotland
157-Finland-Turku
158-Karelia-Viborg

NORTHERN RUSSIA:
159-Kirilov
160-Vologda
161-Galich
162-Viatka
163-Kazan
164-Riazan
165-Murom
166-Niznij Novgorod
167-Kostroma
167/46-Jaroslavl
168-Novgorod
169-Ingria-Narva
170-Pskov
171-Polotsk
172-Smolensk
173-Tver
174-Rostov
175-Dimitrov
176-Suzdal
177-Vladimir
178-Tula
179-Moscow
180-Kaluga

SOUTH RUSSIAN PLAINS:
181-Chernigov
182-Perjeslawl
183-Zaporoze
184-Crimea-Cherson
185-Azov
186-Donetsk
187-Novgorod-Severskij
188-Voronezh
189-Sarai
190-Astrakhan
191-Caspia
192-Kuban-Altariga
193-Cercassia

ASIA:
194-Georgia-Tbilisi
195-Armenia-Ani
196-Azerbaijan-Baku
197-Persia-Tabriz
198-Kurdistan-Amida
199-Capadoccia-Malatya
200-Trebzon
201-Paflagonia-Sinop
202-Bythynia-Nicea
203-Smyrna
204-Attaleia
205-Konya-Ikonion
206-Anatolia-Ankara
207-Cilicia-Tarsus
208-Cyprus-Leukosia
209-Antioch-Antiocheia
210-Edessa
211-Mosul
212-Mesopotamia-Samara
213-Iraq-Baghdad
214-East Arabia
215-West Arabia-Tebuk
216-Jordan
217-
218-Aleppo
219-Lebanon-Tripolis
220-Damascus
221-Palestine-Jerusalem

AFRICA:
222-Sinai
223-Cairo
224-Upper Egypt
225-Alexandria
226-Siva
227-Barka-Cyrene
228-East Tripolitana
229-Tripoli
230-Jerba
231-East Sahara-Wargla
232-Touggourt
233-Kairouan
234-Tunis
235-
236-Algiers
237-Tahert
238-Oran
239-Tlemcen
240-West Sahara-Figuig
241-Sus
242-Sijilmassa
243-Morocco-Marakech
244-Fes
245-Tanger