City names vs. province names

[Siena]

Originally posted by Elewyn

Tula is such a old town. Here is a link for you (http://tsu.tula.ru/koi/english_version/tula/index.html) Riazan should satay where it is (it fits there on original map I worked with and is extended to east and south)

But biggest problem I have with realms 125 and 126. Kazan is much eastwards in level of Riazan :(
Astrakhan the same, but level of Azov :(

Voronezh was founded as a city later (in XVII) but there was a castle since 1177. The only usable place.
And 125? There is NOTHING in middle ages. Just steppe. "Wild fields" with no centre. So The name should be either "Wild fields" or "Donia" or "Don" by the river Don. :(

Hi Elewyn,
thanks for info on Tula. Still, Tula as town seems to have been important only in post-medieval times. Also, when I look at my Medieval maps - I see no Duchy of Tula, or anything like that.

Regarding empty areas - maybe it would be a good idea not to make them into provinces, or simply join then to their neighboring provinces?

[Lamaz]

We have a problem with Finland because there were no big cities or castles before the Swedish came here. Only small towns and some fortresses.

I think that 145 could be called Karelia and city could be called Vyborg or Viborg(not sure about the name, but it was called Vyborg by the Russians)

So something like this could be right if there is two realms in this area. Allthough there were only Finland under the rule of Sweden and then the Russia.

146 Finland - Turku
145 Karelia - Viborg(or whatever the name will be :D)

[Jarlabanke]

Viborg/Wiborg/Vyborg being a name of obvious scandinavian origin I'd say it's not Vyborg.
As for realm 145 I'm still pressing Nyland as Karelia really wasn't claimed by either the Russians or the Swedes until rather late.

[Elewyn]

Do you have any name for 145 when I use Karelia for 136?

[Lamaz]

If 136 is Karelia then 145 can be called as Nyland and Viborg is part of 145.

[Elewyn]

Thanks, So my final conclusion of this region is:

136 Karelia - Kirilov
145 Nyland - Vyborg/Wiborg
146 Finland - Turku, allright?

Btw in few minutes there will be little update on my mapsite http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions

[Lamaz]

Looks fine to me. Nylands city could be called Wiborg.

[Jarlabanke]

Now that I think of it (though I should have thought of it earlier :blush: ) , back in the days Oslo was known as Kaupang or somthing like that. And even though this probably is Henriks area, the main towns in Denmark IMO would have been Jutland - Jelling and Sjaeland - Ribe.

[Elewyn]

Oh :blush:
Kaupang?
Never heard of it. Do you really mind Oslo so much?

And we already discussed Henrik's domain :) Why not again... Henrik?

[Jarlabanke]

Kaupang actually wasn't exactly at the same place as Oslo but a bit North of it (I think), anyways they must have moved it south or something somewhere around the 1250's and then they renamed it Christiania (or it maybe they changed the name later I honestly have no idea), anyways it wasn't called Oslo until Norway got out from the Union with Sweden 1905, once again I'm not 100% sure exactly whne the name changed from Christiania to Oslo but it must've been somewhere around that time. Personally, I don't care, just thought you'd like to know ;)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Jarlabanke
I'm rather sure Viborg was built by Swedes, at least the castle itself.
Viborg was probably spelled Wiborg just as Uppsala was spelled Upsala or Kalmar Calmar.
The realm turku should be called Finland as that's what it was called back then, Finland as a whole was refered to as the "Eastern country" or something like that.
*edit*
Oh right Norrland should probably be Swedish from the begining as the map doesn't show all of it.
The Viborg realm could be called Nyland.

You're right Jarlabanke - look what i've found:

The castle in Vyborg (Viipuri in Finnish) was built in 1293 by the Swedes, who at that time had already controlled the Finnish peninsula for a century.
link:the Danish National Museum - marebalticum (http://marebalticum.natmus.dk/lokUK.asp?ID=26)


@Elewyn please have a look at it too - maybe you'll find something of value to you !

[Bora]

elewyn has done so much work to find provinces with the thyere capitals (fitting to the medieval) that i hope the devs are useing his list

[Siena]

Originally posted by Bora
elewyn has done so much work to find provinces with the thyere capitals (fitting to the medieval) that i hope the devs are useing his list

I hope too. Elewyn really did a great job. His province list already surpasses Europa Universalis one - at least between Baltic Sea and Black sea.

[Bora]

well find some writeing errors in the list. but that we can corrcet.

würtenberg is spelled württemberg (double t and an m not an n)
i went school there and there. you learn it from ther beginning that the region is written: baden-württemberg (about 50-60 years ago baden and württemberg where regiosn for theyre own)

and naples should mean neaple (napoli?)

and such things but this are just writeing errors. is just when the list is used, the names should be right.

[Havoc]

nice kiev is in !!!

[Havoc]

a little geography Odessa, Kiev, Chernigov are all in Ukraine NOW
i gess Ukraine played a little role in that time too( or what is now Ukraine ) :D

[Vytis]

136- Kexholm (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/russian_growth_1300_1796.jpg) ( I suspect that Kirilov is a modern name since Kirilov was one of the soviet party leaders)
144- Reval (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediaeval_commerce.jpg) ( I think Tallinn is a much later name)
114- Marienburg (spelling)
130- Pinsk-Turov (2 cities) or simply Pinsk(more important later)
116-Volhynia-Lutzk (spelling)
135-Jaroslavl (v in russian, w in polish)
126- Pereslavl (same as above)
146-maybe smthng from here (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/sweden_1658.jpg) can be used
133- usualy it's called Muscovy
129-Kiiv (in ukrainian)

Map looks really good. I like it. Well done !

[Havoc]

nice job on the info Vytis

[Elewyn]

Hey, thanks, guys, very much for your help!!
a little geography Odessa, Kiev, Chernigov are all in Ukraine NOW
i gess Ukraine played a little role in that time too( or what is now Ukraine ) :D I'm not sure if I know what you want. I know Kiev and Chernigov are in Ukraine now. Like f.e. Olomouc is in Czech rep now. Do you wanna only one realm for whole area of today Ukraine? I don't, so they must be called different. Ukraine is the last name I wanted to use(Is very incorrect for that age), but I had no other chioce :(

List will be changed just when I will have little more time to "play" with it :)

Btw: Reval vs. Talinn: Talinn is estonian (as far as I know) and Reval is German r Sweedish or Danish or what?) myabe ferman names to al baltic cities foit the most, because most of temporary inhabitants were Germans, but most of "realm" inhabitants were original balts/Estonians. What to chose?

And sorry for bad spelling... sometimes I just rewrite it as I think it is on base of czech name which sometimes doesn't fit. But when you write a list of 150+ realms and towns you want to have it as soon as possible :D

[Jarlabanke]

Talinn means Danetown or something like that, but I guess it was founded as Reval by the Danes.