City names vs. province names

[Henrik]

Now that's what i call one rock solid piece of work - it's simply awesome what you have done Elewyn ;)

As always, if you need any help just let me know and i'll see if i'm able to help you :)

[Frujin]

Hello ALL!

Well, we have some very special topic here. First of all I'd like to assure you that we are not ignoring you. Never ...

We read this tread everyday since it was created and honestly I was very nervous because of not being able to give you good answer.

Although we have both territory name and town name supported by the engine, there IS an issue about the naming of places. Please, be patient a bit more (I know, I know you hear that too often) and we will explain how it is after we finish polishing the game in this area.

Elewyn, thank you a lot for your effort (and the efforts of rest of you). I want to say that it does helps. By the way, would you mind to extend a bit the maps you do to include North Afrika and Near East? :angel: :dwink:

[Vytis]

Elewyn, I think Samogitia needs to be split into 2 parts: Samogitia +Latvia.
This (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/german_power_decline.jpg) should help.

[Elewyn]

Originally by Vytis Elewyn, I think Samogitia needs to be split into 2 parts: Samogitia +Latvia.
This (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/german_power_decline.jpg) should help. Thanks for help.I can do whatever I want on my maps, the truth is that I can't do it to let it be tolerated vith game developers (example- it would be nic for me to have Eger county near bohemian borders as independent)

But now, when Frujin said what he said, I'll remake those maps a bit, extend it ( :) that's exactly what I always wanted but when was told: no Africa, no MidEast; i did nothing in this way)
Btw :hello: :hello:
Thanks Frujin for your answer. I'm sorry again for being so impatient...

I'm glad I have no school today, so I can do it imediately.


BTW, Frujin? How far to east? Baghdad? Mosul? Edessa?

[Jorghan]

Falun is officially in Svealand, even if we who live in the civilized parts of the country consider it to be in Norrland. :D Perhaps Sundsvall is the right town, let me do some research. Also, I realized that perhaps Lund was more important in Skåne during these times than Malmö were.

[Frujin]

@Elewyn: Just include a small part of Syria. ...

[Jorghan]

This is hard, but got some things atleast. The capital for Skåne should definitly be Lund, during all ages. Uppsala in Uppland, atleast mostly, if it can be different names during different ages, it might be Sigtuna or Birka in earlier ages (viking age). The rest gets harder, but I guess Kalmar is the best general bet. (With stuff like the Kalmar Union). Not sure if it should be different during the viking age, problem is geography changed a lot. Perhaps it's best to stay with Kalmar. Norrland is really hard. There hardly were any real towns there it seem during the medieval ages. But I guess either Borlänge or Östersund, though none of them in reality were any important until 16th century atleast. The hard thing about Sweden is also that we didn't have any official capital during the medieval ages. The capital was whatever town the king just happened to live in at the moment. Also, these regions weren't important regions, in fact, I doubt they even existed during these ages, smaller regions were used. But if I have to make a decision with the current information I have:

Norrland - Borlänge
Uppland - Uppsala
Götaland - Kalmar
Skåne - Lund

Edit: I realize I made a mistake considering Borlänge, it's not in Norrland but in Svealand. (Even if I think of that region, Dalarna, more as Norrland). I don't know what town could have existed there then, but Östersund is the oldest refernce I've found this far, even if it's from 16th century or so. Gonna check again once I get of work and get access to some history books.

[Jarlabanke]

Back during the vikingage or maybe a bit before, probably both, there was this place called Höggom somewhere northwards, if not there it should probably be somewhere around Östersund. Uppsala should be the capital in Svealand throughout the game, even if it wasn't the largest town at times, it served as a religious center.

[Elewyn]

So, here's the list. I hope it's OK (*edit* for better understanding I'll give you english names where possible)

1 Ulster - Derry
2 Connaught - Dublin
3 Leinster - Cork
4 Highlands - Inverness
5 Edinburgh - Edinburgh
6 York - York
7 Mercia - Lincoln
8 Anglia - London
9 Kent - Cantenbury
10 Cornwall - Exeter
11 Wales - Caernarvon
12 Flandres - Brugge
13 Champagne - Reims
14 Ille-de-France - Paris
15 Normandie - Rouen
16 Bretagne - Rennes
17 Anjou - Angers
18 Aquitaine - Bordeaux
19 Auvergne - Clermont
20 Bourgogne - Dijon
21 Tolouse - Tolouse
22 Aragón - Barcelona
23 Navarra - Pamplona
24 Castillia - Burgos
25 León - León
26 Portugal - Lisboa (Lisbon)
27 Toledo - Toledo
28 Valencía - Valencía
29 Granada - Granada
30 Andalucía - Cordóba
31 Provence - Arles
32 Savoie - Torino (Turin)
33 Lombardia - Milano (Milan)
34 Venetia - Venezia (Venice)
35 Genoa - Genova
36 Toscana - Pisa
37 Roma - Roma
38 Corse - Ajaccio
39 Sardegna - Cagliari
40 Napoli - Napoli (Naples)
41 Apulia - Bari
42 Sicilia - Palermo
43 Croatia - Zagreb
44 Dalmatia - Zadar
45 Bosnia - Sarajevo
46 Slavonia - Djakovo
47 Vojvodina - Severin
48 Serbia - Beograd (Belgrade)
49 Epiros - Dyrrhachion (Drac, Durrës)
50 Hellas - Athína (Athens)
51 Solun - Thesaloniki (Solun)
52 Macedonia - Ochrid
53 Vidin - Vidin
54 Walachia - Bucuresti (Bucharest)
55 Dobrudja - Karvuna
56 Bulgaria - Tarnovo
57 Thracia - Constantinopolis (Constantinople)
58 Morroco - Tanger
59 Ouahran - Ouahran
60 Algers - Algers
61 Tunis - Tunis
62 Tripolitana - Tripolis
63 Barka - Cyrene
64 Alexandria - Alexandria
65 Egypt - Kairah (Cairo)
66 Palestine - Jerusalem
67 Syria - Dimashq (Damascus)
68 Antioch - Antiocheia (Antakya)
69 Mosul - Mosul
70 Cappadocia - Malatya
71 Anatolia - Ankara
72 Kilikia - Tarsus
73 Smyrna - Smyrna
74 Cyprus - Leukosia
75 Krete - Iraklion
76 Nicaea - Nicaea
77 Trabzonide - Trabzon/Trapezunt
78 Armenia - Ani
79 Georgia - Suchumi
80 Kuban - Phangoreia
81 Azov - Azov
82 Perjeslawl - Perjeslawl
83 Krym - Cherson
84 Ukraine - Odessa
85 Moldova - Suceava
86 Transylvania - Klausenburg (Cluj/Kolozsvár)
87 Hungaria - Esztergom
88 Carpathia - Kossice
89 Pannonia - Pécs
90 Styria - Graz
91 Austria - Wien (Wienna)
92 Moravia - Olomouc
93 Bohemia - Praha (Prague)
94 Bavaria - Regensburg
95 Schwytz - Luzern
96 Swabia - Strassbourg
97 Lorraine - Köln/Cologne
98 Frisia - Utrecht
99 Saxony - Bremen
100 Franconia - Mainz (Mayence)
101 Meissen - Meissen
102 Brandenburg - Brandenburg
103 Pomerania - Gdansk
104 Polonia - Poznan
105 Silesia - Wroclaw
106 Cracovia - Krakow
107 Galicia - Halicz
108 Volhynia - Luzk (Lutzk)
109 Mazovia - Warszawa (Warsaw)
110 Prussia - Marienburg
111 Samogitia - Medvegalis
112 Curonia - Mitau
113 Lithuania - Vilnius
114 Polotsk - Polotsk
115 Kiev - Kijiv (Kiev)
116 Chernigov - Chernigov
117 Riazan - Riazan
118 Smolensk - Smolensk
119 Moscovia - Moskva (Moscow)
120 Novgorod - Novgorod
121 Livonia - Riga
122 Estonia - Talinn
123 Finland - Viborg
124 Turku - Turku
125 Norrland - Östersund
126 Svealand - Uppsala
127 Götaland - Kalmar
128 Skaane - Lund
129 Sjealand - Odense
130 Jutland - Viborg
131 Oslo - Oslo
132 Bergen - Bergen
133 Nidaros - Nidaros (Trondheim)

PS: those realms you can see on map called "evidence" here (http://elvain.album.cz/map-suggestions/)

[Darius]

Ohh.... nice work, but i think nr. 129 shouldn't be named Denmark, but the capital is ok... after all it's just a province, in danish it's called Sjælland but i'm not sure what it's called in english.

[Elewyn]

Is Sjealand right?
I didn't know any name of this region, that's why ¨'ve chosen Denmark before

[Darius]

well i just looked it up... :p
In english Sjælland is called Zealand!

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Darius
Ohh.... nice work, but i think nr. 129 shouldn't be named Denmark, but the capital is ok... after all it's just a province, in danish it's called Sjælland but i'm not sure what it's called in english.

According to my dictionary "sjælland" is called Zealand in english.

I also hope that Elewyn would include the following danis cities in his list:

The city of Ribe in Jutland founded around year 800 - it's the oldest city in Denmark and has a cathedral.
The city of Viborg in Jutland founded around year 800 - has a cathedral.
The city of Odense on the island of Funen ( Fyn ) founded before 988 has a cathedral

I think that those cities just about covers Denmark - i'll hope the rest of the danes here agrees - if ya don't then let find some

Btw, the city of Aahus in Jutland was called Aros

[Darius]

I agree with you Henrik... these citys are some of the most importent in Denmarks history

[Elewyn]

The city of Ribe in Jutland founded around year 800 - it's the oldest city in Denmark and has a cathedral.
The city of Viborg in Jutland founded around year 800 - has a cathedral.
The city of Odense on the island of Funen ( Fyn ) founded before 988 has a cathedral
OK, I'll change it, only tell me, were they also most important in midle ages?
Oldest doesn't everytime mean most important, that's why am I asking. No doubt about Odense, I know it so it's about to be in, Viborg I've seen somewhere too, but.. you know.

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Elewyn
OK, I'll change it, only tell me, were they also most important in midle ages?
Oldest doesn't everytime mean most important, that's why am I asking. No doubt about Odense, I know it so it's about to be in, Viborg I've seen somewhere too, but.. you know.

The city of Viborg were frequently visited by the danish kings and it also had a politic and religious center.

My research upto now has lead to the conclusion that the cities first and foremost ware religious centers ie. around 1060 the danish king Svend Estridsen dived Denmark into regions: Slesvig, Ribe, Aarhus, Viborg, Vendsyssel ( northern part of Jutland - it's a region ), Odense, Roskilde and Lund and in each of they regions the built a cathdral.

At that time Denmark didn't have a capital ie. the king was always traveling round the country.

[Jorghan]

Shouldn't the city you mention for Finland be spelled Viborg as well, with i, not y. Atleast that's what I believe.

[Vytis]

Couple of suggestions for your consideration:

112 - Tervete (major castle until XVc) or Mintauja (XVc capital of Curonian Duchy)
107 - Hal (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_1360.jpg)icz (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/russian_growth_1300_1796.jpg) (<--2maps) could be the choice. I'm not sure if Lvov was very important city during medieval ages.

[Elewyn]

Thanx Henrik. I hope you'll agree with:
Skane-Lund
Jutland-Viborg
Sjaeland-Odense(Zealand is also in the Netherlands and this dutch one is known more, as I think)

to Vytis. Thanks. Galicia will have Halicz as capital. (In my maps Lvov was the same size as Halicz, so I used it because I knoew it more)
Kuronia is big problem. But I finally found my notes from school course about Curonia in XVI and XVII cent with 2 good maps. After all I decided between Mitau and Kuldinga, so Mitau/Jelvaga is the Winner (Mitau is "german"-teutonic name, Jelvaga is "latvian")

Hope not only me, but also Frujin will change it :D because this is only suggestion.

There is also one more change. Region between Caucassus, Black sea and Don river is no longer Scythia(ancient name) but Kuban(from Kuban river). I'm hapy I found the name of this region :)

BTW. Frujin. Did I understand well that provinces WILL have DIFERENT names than capitals(if it is needed)?

And I hope that Jorghan will accept Vyborg in Finland, when Viborg is also in Denmadk(Jutland). Imagine you rule over both of them and when some problem with Viborg emerges, you don't know which Viborg it is :D

[Kuno of Gersenau]

@Elewyn: For which Time is your List?

Because 1353 Bern joined the Swiss Eidgenossenschaft and was the mighties Town of Switzerland...
But if it is for a earlyer time, Luzern is ok. (In reality, there was no capital in Switzerland during the Medival;) )