holy roman empire vs. germany

[Cork2]

Originally posted by Finellach
Me too, but thats not the point. ;)

I think it is, well there should be an option under options were you are able to change it to hre or germany or make corrections yourself to how you would like it. But i really just wanne take over the world as Germany.:D :cheers:

[Finellach]

Well I don't know if you could hold more than one King title, but I presume you can.

Anyway it would be good that if you conquer Kingdom of Burgundy, Italy, Bohemia and Germany along with Flanders, Brabant, Friesland, Austria, Lorraine, etc. that you would then get the option to name yourself Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. That is if you wish that. :p

It's something like the option you will get to name your kingdom 'Ireland' If you conquer Leinster, Munster and Ulster.

In any case the starting point should be HRE and if you decide to rename it in Germany, Italy, Burgundy or however you want...of course on the expense of your vassals loyalty...you will be welcome to do so. :D

[Vytis]

...well there should be an option under options were you are able to change it to hre or germany or make corrections yourself to how you would like it...
Ability to edit names in the game files would be great.

[Gorgoroth]

Originally posted by Vytis
Ability to edit names in the game files would be great.


I reckon, but it isnt that important anyways.
If we could make custom overland maps, than maybe. :p

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Vytis
Ability to edit names in the game files would be great. or maybe better to chose from 2 or 3 names?

[d'Honaire]

If you don't know the difference between the HRE and Germany, this game may not be for you. By reading enough of these threads; I gather that most everyone that intends on playing the game has a better than average grasp of medieval history and history as a whole. So, I say, use whatever is historically accurate, because the history buffs, like myself, are going to be the ones that play this over and over and are probably going to be the largest fanbase for this game, and others of its kind.:cheers:

[Elewyn]

nope, this game is not only for history maniacs!

but I see no reason why those who don't know the difference (most of gamers are between 10 and 18 yrs) cannot get explanation that HolyRomanEmpire is right name and it covered mostly area of todays Germany, France, Low countries Switzerland, Italy, Austria and Czechia and it was Holy Roman Empire because of inspiration by Romans and Charlemagne (who btw was also Roman emperor). Each kingdom is described, what can be written about Germany?

Germany was founded by Otto I. in area of former East-Frankish Empire. It was called Roman Empire when Otto become emperor in 962 AD. It was electionary monarchy(not hereditary) containing form more or less independent duchies(since 13h century half-independent) in most of central Europe and parts of France and Italy. In times of Frederick Barbarossa in 12th century name was extended to HolyRomanEmpire to show universal ambitions of its emperors... (77words, f.e. Poland's description is 65words long)
for HRE... "Holy Roman Empire was founded in area of former East-Frankish Empire by Otto I. when in 962he became Roman Emperor..."

[Finellach]

Yes, I don't see a reason why the names of kingdoms, province capitals and other similar things wouldn't be historicaly correct. After all it is great when you can learn something from a game. It makes it even more fun. :)

[Cork2]

I know the difference between the two, i just don't wanne play as hre, i'd rather play a Germany. Even if people don't know much about history why should this game only be for history buff. This is a stratagy game so people who like to play stratagy games will play this more.:cheers:

[Elewyn]

Cork. Will you mind playing some WW2 having Bundesrepublik Deutschland and Russian fereration instear of 3rd Reich and USSR?

When KoH can have Fatimids instead of Egypt, Byzantium instead of Greece, why not Holy Roman Empire? Those names are known the same, maybe even less than HRE by ordinary gamers-not-historical-experts. And I really don't see any other reason of using HRE than making it understandable also for non-historical-experts.

[Finellach]

I don't see how can playing Germany be more fun than playing with a kingdom that is named Holy Roman Empire. I think HRE is by far more cooler name...if we are going to talk about "coolness". :D

[Elewyn]

Each of us thinks something different is more or less cool. It's personal-subjective reason. We also already know objective reasons for both HRE and Germany. If objective reason for Germany is more important, I ask (again and again, I am sorry) why only in case of Germany?

[Finellach]

I don't see objective "reasons" for Germany. Since it's historicaly inccorect it can only be subjective. Objective would be to have HRE ;)

...as I hope it will be. :rolleyes:

[Elewyn]

buyers are objective reasons. They may not understand Holy Roman Empire, Fatimids, Byzantine empire, Lotharingia, Golden Horde, Cumans, Almohads, Pechenegs and Lithuania in most of nowadays Belarus and Ukraine. They really may not understanw what all those fractions do in Greece, Egypt...
but if they can understand all of those and cannot understand Holy Roman Empire, then I probably missed that reason :scratch:

[Finellach]

Well if they don't understand they will learn something.

[d'Honaire]

Yes, the buyers may be objective, but why would someone want to buy a game that has more intracacies than most 10-18 year olds can understand? I believe that KOH will be fun, because I have a decent understanding of the era. Also, when you think something is wrong or you just like it(about the game that is), you may decide to do some research on it, which makes it just as much of a learning tool and as a game too.

[Elewyn]

I'm not trying to push Germany!;) I want exactly the asme like you. I only try to understand reasons of oposite side.

I think the same like you. If I won't understand what Romans do in Germany I'll probably find something or maybe there in game itself will be an explanation. Why keep somebody out of knowledge when you can very simply show him the truth?
I don't want this game to be schoolbook (however sometimes it may look), but when you talk to friend in pub and he doesn't know something you do and he asks you, you'd explain it to him, would you, Frank Fay? Frujin? Cork2?

[Redback]

Originally posted by Elewyn
nope, this game is not only for history maniacs!



G'day everyone I Know that this has been under discussion for a long time,but I have been to lazy to post

I agree with Elewyn.
How many people who buy this game for pure historical reasons?.
I guess only a minority.{myself Included}
How many will buy this game only for fun?.
I guess alot more.
How will BSS make enough money for KOH2 ?.
I guess by making the 2nd group Happy.

And if just one name is a problem historically for History buffs.{Don't get me wrong I'm a History buff as well.}

How many times in the history of Europe did states/Empires change their names or borders change ?.

Just think what a nightmare this would be to incorporate into the game ,just to be historically correct.

I know BSS are doing the right thing by making the majority happy.:) :cool: :cheers:
Just my 2 cents:p :cheers:

[Elewyn]

You're right, Redback. But also.

How many guys who don't care about historicall correctness will mind right name? How many of them will get disgusted when seeing correct HolyRomanEmpire in area of Central Europe instead of Germany and reading that it's not Gaius Iulius Caesar who ruled there, but Frederick Barbarossa? I guess many of them will read description of that country and say: "Hmmm, funny that Germans called themselves Romans :)", don't care of it any longer and just play this wonderfull game as they will play with Byzantium in area of Greece and Turkey and anything else.

Their first impression will be like it looks little strange to them but they wouldn't care if it is Germany or whatever else in central Europe, they wouldn't care if it is Greece in area of Byzantium as well.

And if it will dumbly insist on (in this case) little exagerated motto: "fun over accurancy", only a few guys who are interested in this game will get little disapointed, nothing serious, I know.

[Gorgoroth]

This is still very weird to me. Do you think that if you will use the Germany naming in the game instead of the Holy Roman Empire, the game will sell better???
I seriously doubt that.
Propably every buyers spent many years in the school, learning history, so why is this a problem?

Elewyn I dont understand your reply:

"nope, this game is not only for history maniacs!"

That is very true, but a not correct empire naming has nothing to do with the "history maniacs" term IMHO.
This whole discussion is totally pointless, the "germany" naming will be incorrect, everyone know it, even the buyers of the game.
:rolleyes: