holy roman empire vs. germany

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Vytis
Conservative wing of the History Party [me] claims that HRE without Austria, Brandenburg, Bohemia, etc, etc is not a HRE (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/roman_empire_1138_1254.jpg).

What to call it then? Um... Simply 'German States' not good enough?

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All this thinking about Germany makes me thirsty. Good thing my friend Hacker-Pschorr [Weisse] is waiting 4 me in the fridge.

bohemia, austria & brandenburg will be vassals of the hre, as far as i understood - to represent dependency on the hre but be playable as own kingdom and to weaken superiority of the hre.

maybe it depends on the entry date (1000, 1200 or 1350). and of course it will depend on how bss will build the hre at the end...

so you suggest german states? :scratch: but this name never ever was used??!!??




@ the holy knight

dam this thread is long and I just read through all of it

respect! :cheers:

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Vytis
Conservative wing of the History Party [me] claims that HRE without Austria, Brandenburg, Bohemia, etc, etc is not a HRE (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/roman_empire_1138_1254.jpg).

What to call it then? Um... Simply 'German States' not good enough?

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All this thinking about Germany makes me thirsty. Good thing my friend Hacker-Pschorr [Weisse] is waiting 4 me in the fridge. Yes, not bad idea, but if yes, so then no vasality of Austria and Bohemia and Bavaria and Saxony etc. to German states. Bohemia nor Austria vere not vassals of f.e. Thirngia, arcibishopate of Cologne, Mayennce(Mainz), Nassau nor Pfalz. They were vassals of HRE. So if "German states", then no wassality. But then there will be absence of significant middleeuropean power and IMO it fits more to later eras (XVI and XVII century) than to XII-XIV centuries

[Lord Ciar]

The correct name is holy roman empire, and I don't think people will get confused and start panicking when they see it, who knows they might learn something.

If I am not mistaken every country has some sort of info if you include The Holy Roman empire, the foetal form of nowadays germany lead by the German Emperor...
Or something like that.

why would you make the game simple when there is no need, it wouldn't detract from the joy of playing the game and it would enhance the gaming experience of those who like history.

PS: Byzantine empire just be called Greeks then?

[Wallenstein]

I agree with the correct name HRE!:go: KoH will, along with entertaining its players, also inform them, whether KoH designers intend that or not. It would be a shame to provide incorrect info to people who may not know the differences.:confused:

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Wallenstein
I agree with the correct name HRE!:go: KoH will, along with entertaining its players, also inform them, whether KoH designers intend that or not. It would be a shame to provide incorrect info to people who may not know the differences.:confused: Wallenstein?

Any relations to Albrecht von Wallenstein (in czech Albrecht z Valdstejna), the famous general of 30years war?

[Emhyr var Emreis]

I agree with the correct name HRE!:go: KoH will, along with entertaining its players, also inform them, whether KoH designers intend that or not. It would be a shame to provide incorrect info to people who may not know the differences.:confused: :) a teacher speaking :go: :bday:

[Emhyr var Emreis]

seems like all important words have been said here :( does it lead to any change of devs's statement?

Sorry if we all (especially me, when I'm here from time to time) want too much changes

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Emhyr var Emreis
seems like all important words have been said here :( does it lead to any change of devs's statement?

Sorry if we all (especially me, when I'm here from time to time) want too much changes


we could make "tabula rasa" and begin again :p



It's really our game, but it's you supposed to enjoy it That's why I'm spending a LOT of time in this forum to got each piece of feedback possible. That helps the game to get better. thats the last "official" statement from frujin, dated on 28-03-2004...



EDIT
once upon a time there was a huge pink question monster. but noble knight frujin veni, vidi, vici. now its very small and absolut harmless...
devs, is there anything new???

[Frujin]

Wow :) .. even without any internet connection, I'd be able to read that post, timurlenk. Did it really needed to be THAT huge and pink?!


We are reading everything here. For this specific issue - we still can't take any decision. At the moment situation is: we think if it is possible for us to make it the way most of you want it or not. Once we have answer - we will share it with you. :)

[Frujin]

Bwahahahaha :) You made my day ... :cheers:

[Elewyn]

just to deliberate my signature from HRE vs. Germany, so an attempt here to make it "live"


:scratch: maybe there is one more reason. I hope, Frujin, that you are considering it only for late period, when vassals of HolyRomanEmpire such as Austria, Bohemia, Brandenbutg etc. take it's place. I hope that in high period (1200) and early (1000) you call it really right Holy Roman Empire, because all arguments speaking for name Germany or German states etc. fit ONLY to late period and when there are no vassal states like Austria, Brandenburg, Bavaria etc., there is no need to call it Germany...

arrgh. simply. Hope thet 1000, 1200 are clear and that state is called HRE and you still consider the name in 1350

[timurlenk]

and just to clarify my pink monster post...

...noble knight frujin venit, vidit, vicit of course, not me :blush:

[Emhyr var Emreis]

it looks like this thread did what was it's purpouse. I'm looking forward the devs final resolution (especially if it will follow opinion of most of us, voters:))

[Kuno of Gersenau]

The result in german Tread is this:

HRR: 30 votes = 77.95%
Germany: 2 votes = 5.26%
I don't care: 5 votes = 13.16%
And "Wht is the HRR?": 1vote = 2.63%

[Finellach]

Well I didn't wanted to comment until now, but I must say I voted for HRE. I mean it would be unfair to call it just "Germany" since this was a huge empire that included the titles of Burgudny, Italy and Germany....not to mention the huge number of other duchies and counties like Austria, Bohemia, Lower and Upper Lorraine, Luxembourg. HRE was multicultural state and to name it "Germany" would be not only historicly incorrect, but would also be unfair to other nations that lived in that huge empire.

[Bora]

Originally posted by Finellach
Well I didn't wanted to comment until now, but I must say I voted for HRE. I mean it would be unfair to call it just "Germany" since this was a huge empire that included the titles of Burgudny, Italy and Germany....not to mention the huge number of other duchies and counties like Austria, Bohemia, Lower and Upper Lorraine, Luxembourg. HRE was multicultural state and to name it "Germany" would be not only historicly incorrect, but would also be unfair to other nations that lived in that huge empire.

i think thats the best statment for pro HRE at the moment :go:

[Finellach]

Originally posted by Bora
i think thats the best statment for pro HRE at the moment :go:

Thanks, I try. :silly:

[Vytis]

Actually the arguments given in this statement are against calling it HRE. Finellach was talking about historical HRE. In this game it's gonna be quite the opposite : it will not be multicultural and it will not have huge number of other dutchies and counties. Austria, Bohemia, etc. will be independant countries.

[timurlenk]

hmm, we actually dont know how it will be built in the 3 different entry points.


but at least in one of them there will be a kingdom, built from the most realms oft the hre + vassals like bohemia, brandenburg and austria, named ??? (germany or hre, thats the question)


as austria - to be part of germany or vassal of it - i wouldnt like it either :) i guess, its the same for the other non-german regions that were part of the hre.

[Steve The Wonderful]

Maybe they should just put both names like holy roman empire(Germany). or somthing like that