holy roman empire vs. germany [Archive] - Page 17

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Frank Fay

01-07-2004, 21:12

i will make tomorrow a statement...

Kuno of Gersenau

01-07-2004, 22:31

Good

Tell us the reason why you let Barbarossa turn in his grave...;) :(

Bora

02-07-2004, 18:37

frank fay has released the final list of kingdoms

http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?t=1553

as you can read there, there will be no HRE at all. ist sad, because the votes in both forums had shown that people want HRE, but its ok for me. maybe angryminer will run wild a bit. ;)

Elewyn

02-07-2004, 19:06

the only thing I wait now is the EXPLANATION, promissed long ago and yesterday again. It's clear there is no HRE and it's very sad.

I only hope that explanation won't be of this kind: most of buyers would not understand name HRE cause then they wouldn't understand Byzantia as well. So I hope there will be some really strong argument... I'm waiting for it and looking forward

Ledhead

02-07-2004, 19:21

timurlenk

02-07-2004, 19:29

But the HRE isn't historical accurate until the mid 13th century...

and germany? :angry:
until which century???

Elewyn

02-07-2004, 19:38

But the HRE isn't historical accurate until the mid 13th century...
yes, it's not accurate exactly. But it's still acurate for at least 2 of KoH entry points. Germany is acurate to neither of them...
It was, Roman Empire since 962, Holy Empire since 1158 and Holy Roman since mid 13th century.

The only reason for Germany is appereance of Italy as separate nation, what is also inaccurate...

so: Inaccurate kingdom is reason of usage inaccurate name for another one...

or... Frank? where is that promissed explanation?

Frank Fay

02-07-2004, 20:17

Okay, let me try to explain this.

First of all the list is set and final. Which means there wont be any HRE in the game.

Let me try to explain this non technical and as much as I can as a producer.

1) One problem is /was the way the game creates text. We wanted to have a sysem which allows very complex and lifelike sentence constructions. But since we have more than 100 kingdoms it had to work for all but it did for all, except HRE.

Example: The english King rejects the Proposal of Frank, Duke of the Grand Duchness of Bohemia.

Imagine this with Holy Roman Empire of German Nation instead of England.

2) Another problem was the size. Because of HRE as a kingdom name, the interface would have had to reserve much space, which was only filed by one case but by in all other cases a lot of empty space. And since kingdoms are mentioned almost everywhere in the game, it would have looked really ugly...

3) We have a feature which we think is cool. Imagine you play as Anglia and you conquered all other provinces in England. Then you get asked if you want to rename your kingdom of Anglia into "Kingdom of England". For Germany, you get asked if you want to rename it to the "Empire of Germany".

There are more and I wish I could tell all. Maybe Frujin want to ad something here to it. However, it was mainly a technical and design issue... Maybe (3) is a good compromise but that's it...nothing we can change...

Bora

02-07-2004, 20:30

ok, fank,... but "holy roman empire" takesnot really more space then "kingdom of england"
but i belive you that there are some reasons who makes itbetetr to call it simply germany

Frank Fay

02-07-2004, 20:39

Holy Roman Empire would be much more misleading as Germany ...

Angryminer

02-07-2004, 20:46

I don't really need the term "Holy Roman Empire" in the game, but want the term "Germany" out of the game ;) .
Are the entry-points saved text-based?
Perhaps xml-look-alike?
I hope so - lets mess around with some game-data :) .
And thanks for the statement! :go:

Angryminer

Sir Turylon

02-07-2004, 21:19

I can hear Elewyn screaming in some sort of weird language and gouging his eyes out over hearing no HRE in any of the three starting points. hehe.
:rofl:

Angryminer

02-07-2004, 21:33

Oh, I nearly forgot that I promissed something to myself:
*Angryminer throws a big rock at Frujin's head*
Ah, that was good ;) .

Well, I'm used to be the one who finalizes games. There are always some things missing ;) .

Angryminer

Bora

03-07-2004, 00:06

dont think that this game is made that easy as eu2, hearts of iron, etc where you can edit everything by xml-file

Elewyn

03-07-2004, 08:47

well, thanks for explanation.

Since it cannot be changed, it's useless to make any objections and proposals. Thanks for great game.

PS: Turylon. I'm glad that you are happy. I must confess that "Germany" in KoH disappointed me extremely, but my disappiontment became much weaker when I saw my unhappines can make somebody so happy. So I'm glad there is Germany instead of HRE, just to make Sir Turylon happy, no matter what is the case.

Ledhead

03-07-2004, 11:09

The only reason for Germany is appereance of Italy as separate nation, what is also inaccurate...

so: Inaccurate kingdom is reason of usage inaccurate name for another one...

so by that way of reasoning HRE must also be inaccurate because then Germany must appear as a separate nation...
He is king of the Germans because the German princes elected him to be their king (King of THE Germans), still "Germany" was kind of a loose confederacy consisting of many strong realms Saxony etc...
Then the king of the Germans conquered parts of Italy, isn't he still king of the Germans, or does this means he has to change his title?
He added to his prestige with new titles and so on. But the captain of the whole ship was still the guy the German princes elected to be their king (the King of THE Germans). The elected German king could then, if the pope liked him, ALSO be crowned to the schismatic catholic fake imperial title HRE...
Either there is a translation problem or many of you, my dear topic opponents, confuse todays meaning of Germany with the one used in those times. And the strange notion that the German king can't be called the King of the Germans because he also ruled over Italians, Dutch and Bohemians. He was first and foremost King of the Germans but added to that other titles, the HRE title was more like relish on the hot dog, dip to the potatoe chips, peanuts to the beer...(I think I got hungry now...)
For in English if someone is elected to be king by the German princes he has to be called -> king of the Germans. What else? The princes still retained their prince titles did they not? The elected guy didn't get their titles but as a king, like king of Thüringia, king of Saxony...
And the realm that consisted of all these principalitys has to then be called Kingdom of Germany or kingdom of the Germans in English, for it cannot be called Kingdom of Thüringia, Saxony, Swabia...

Kuno of Gersenau

03-07-2004, 12:01

I can hear Elewyn screaming in some sort of weird language and gouging his eyes out over hearing no HRE in any of the three starting points. hehe.
:rofl:
STOP THIS!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

I must say that I ask me when I read your post which of us two is the 15 years old teenager...:rolleyes: This forum is based on behaviour and friendship and we don't want such things here! :angry: :angry: :angry:

And to the topic: a bit sad, but it makes no sense to go on...

Sir Turylon

03-07-2004, 20:39

PS: Turylon. I'm glad that you are happy. I must confess that "Germany" in KoH disappointed me extremely, but my disappiontment became much weaker when I saw my unhappines can make somebody so happy. So I'm glad there is Germany instead of HRE, just to make Sir Turylon happy, no matter what is the case.

maybe you had a memory lapse :cool:.. I was for HRE, not against it.

@Kuno. that post was meant jokingly. I guess you haven't learned how to detect humor and sarcasm in typing? if there is a lol or hehe or laughing :) it usually means the person isn't being serious.

Glad that the devs left it out in order to not, as Frank said, "mislead people." :go:

Kuno of Gersenau

03-07-2004, 20:41

Well you have to understand that sometimes it is difficult to understand when you two are writing about each others if tis joking or gloating...:rolleyes:

But I don't wan't any argument with anybody here, so have a :cheers:

Sir Turylon

03-07-2004, 21:48