holy roman empire vs. germany

[Platina]

Originally posted by Imigss
Hmm... I thing that the holy roman empire would be right becouse german or teutonic tribe was comming from roman empire and that all happen in the time when happened great migration of people when many new tribes and nations born.
P.S.
Sry, if my english not so good.

I don't quite understand what you say, but you are saying: that Holy Roman Empire is the correct name because the german of teutonic tribe were comming from the Roman Empire at the time that there was a big immigration?

But according to my sources this isn't correct. I think the country that we now know as Germany should be called Germany or something likewise. Why? Because Germany didn't belong to the romans in the past ( or at least not all of Germany ) it was inhabited by fierce warriors. And because of some dip**** guy that lived a few hundred years ago, decided to call it the Holy Roman Empire, it should still have that name now? My suggestion, just name it Germany or Der Germanischer Reich (My deutsch isn't very good) not the Holy Roman Empire! Because that were 2 completely different things.

[Lord_MacLeod]

How about "German Corelands" - "Deutsche Kernlande"?
That would suit well, imho.

Greetings,
Mac

[Imigss]

But Germany came from one Germanic tribe and then it diveded in France and Germany.

[Elewyn]

Originally posted by Platina
I don't quite understand what you say, but you are saying: that Holy Roman Empire is the correct name because the german of teutonic tribe were comming from the Roman Empire at the time that there was a big immigration?

But according to my sources this isn't correct. I think the country that we now know as Germany should be called Germany or something likewise. Why? Because Germany didn't belong to the romans in the past ( or at least not all of Germany ) it was inhabited by fierce warriors. And because of some dip**** guy that lived a few hundred years ago, decided to call it the Holy Roman Empire, it should still have that name now? My suggestion, just name it Germany or Der Germanischer Reich (My deutsch isn't very good) not the Holy Roman Empire! Because that were 2 completely different things. That's simply the problem. You should vote for "What is Holy Roman Empire?" because HRE has nothing to do with Romans. Rulers were always Germans (exept few ones). And that "Roman" there means they felt themselves as successors of Romans, not that Romans ruled there.

But yes, you represent misunderstanding which simply is possible. So in manual to KoH you should describe all nations and to HRE write :"It has nothing to do with Romans, but Germans and Italians, Bohemians, French, Dutch, Swiss, ëtc., tried to be universal monarchy, but afterall became only not very tight commonwealth of duchies and counties..."

[Bora]

Originally posted by Elewyn
That's simply the problem. You should vote for "What is Holy Roman Empire?" because HRE has nothing to do with Romans. Rulers were always Germans (exept few ones). And that "Roman" there means they felt themselves as successors of Romans, not that Romans ruled there.

But yes, you represent misunderstanding which simply is possible. So in manual to KoH you should describe all nations and to HRE write :"It has nothing to do with Romans, but Germans and Italians, Bohemians, French, Dutch, Swiss, ëtc., tried to be universal monarchy, but afterall became only not very tight commonwealth of duchies and counties..."

the manual should fit into the box ;)
and the poeple should get not to fast bored of reading it:)
and as you know there are much poeple who dont even open the manual and start directly to play.

[Elewyn]

That's right Bora, many people do it. I meant it also like small comments in "natons" showcase when choosing them

[Siena]

Originally posted by Angryminer

But if HRE turns Germany, because poeple might not know about german history, they might not know about french history, so Burgundy should be annexed by France. Bohemia shouldn't be there too, Lithuania should be devided between Poland and Russia...


Sorry to interrupt, but Lithuania was never divided between Poland and Russia.

Regarding HRE or Germany - I voted for HRE. That name was used in several games and it have not caused mass confussio, as far as I heard.
Also, HRE is a more correct name for the time, than Germany. I think the goal should be to sort of recreate medieval feeling - and HRE is a perfect medieval name for that. :)

I have related question:
what about Teutonic Order?
Is it a vassal of HRE? Is it part of HRE? Is it a separate Kingdom?
If it is a separate kingdom, then how is it able to survive? Does it get reinforcements in the form of Crusades?

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Siena
Sorry to interrupt, but Lithuania was never divided between Poland and Russia.

i guess, she / he didnt mean poland and russia met on negotiating table and said: "o.k., lets divide it!" but that most parts of the territory of the former lithuania is today divided between (white) russia and poland. (of course there are other states too). :scratch:



Regarding HRE or Germany - I voted for HRE. That name was used in several games and it have not caused mass confussio, as far as I heard.
Also, HRE is a more correct name for the time, than Germany. I think the goal should be to sort of recreate medieval feeling - and HRE is a perfect medieval name for that. :)

:hello: :hug:

[Siena]

Originally posted by timurlenk
i guess, she / he didnt mean poland and russia met on negotiating table and said: "o.k., lets divide it!" but that most parts of the territory of the former lithuania is today divided between (white) russia and poland. (of course there are other states too). :scratch:


:)
well, following that logic - Austria is divided between Hungary, Czech Republic and other states too :)

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Siena
:)
well, following that logic - Austria is divided between Hungary, Czech Republic and other states too :)

well, i never claimed any logic :bday:

the bottom line is: it makes no sense to use actual state just for getting people not wonder themselves: why the hell lithuania is that big? in my map its sooo small. these "fools" from bss have no idea from geography?!? :D

[Emhyr var Emreis]

Originally posted by Siena
1. Regarding HRE or Germany - I voted for HRE. That name was used in several games and it have not caused mass confussio, as far as I heard.
Also, HRE is a more correct name for the time, than Germany. I think the goal should be to sort of recreate medieval feeling - and HRE is a perfect medieval name for that. :)

2. I have related question:
what about Teutonic Order?
Is it a vassal of HRE? Is it part of HRE? Is it a separate Kingdom?
If it is a separate kingdom, then how is it able to survive? Does it get reinforcements in the form of Crusades? 1. Great, I agree with you. Why to step back when in other games it work well?

2.It should be independent (non vassal) kingdom, but with pre-defined good relations to Holy Roman Empire (HRE). It can be one of somewhere else described harder fractions to play. Shall be supported by local people only little in Prussia(regarding the fact that TO is there in late period 1350-60, so after big german colonisaton to this area in 13th and beggining of 14th century), but not in Livonia etc. So this "nation" should require more clerics than any other, more diplomatical skills, well skilled governors as the essence of success.

[Ixyedam]

I vote "Germany"

This Topic has 4 pages, it's a very extremely task for somebody(like I), who know a little english.

In that case I can't to include in a discussion, but I think "Germany" and I voted (It modifier is characteristic of tribes were lived on German's land, HRE is too general..I thnik) :

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Ixyedam
I vote "Germany"

This Topic has 4 pages, it's a very extremely task for somebody(like I), who know a little english.

In that case I can't to include in a discussion, but I think "Germany" and I voted (It HRE is too general..I thnik) :


your english is o.k. (although i dont understand: "modifier is characteristic of tribes were lived on German's land")

but your vote man :beek:

;)

[Kuno of Gersenau]

Hmm..I voted a long time ago, but I see that I didn't say what and why...

Also, I voted "I don't care", I know that germany is incorrect, but for me is this only a unimportant detail...;)

[Ixyedam]

Originally posted by timurlenk
your english is o.k. (although i dont understand: "modifier is characteristic of tribes were lived on German's land")

but your vote man :beek:

;)

Hyh, It's sentence is in passive voice (but I don't know to express in english :rolleyes: )

MY vote..it's my opinion I'm sorry hyh :p

Edit:

In a book "Poland of Piasts" her author Pawel Jasienica says about German's lands usually "Germany", but about German's rulers - emperors (emperors like Roman's Caesar, not ordinary king!)

Do you understand?:p

[timurlenk]

Originally posted by Ixyedam
Do you understand?:p

sure. you are speaking of leon lech beynar (pawel jasienica) , who lived 1909-1970, a polish amateur historian.
(wikipedia really rocks :D )

of course i respect your vote! i asked for opinions. to be honest, im surprised how much people voted for hre :)

[Ixyedam]

btw: Our conversations affect on creators Knights oh Honor?

For example: If We decide HRE, they'll call German's lands HRE..:D :D

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Ixyedam
btw: Our conversations affect on creators Knights oh Honor?



Yeahh, the guys at Black Sea Studios have been know for listen and implement ideas from our community - they really know how get happy customers ;)

[Ixyedam]

We'll create a perfect strategy game ;)

I can't to wait till..

Did somebody give hardware requirements?:rolleyes:

[Arjenvs]

Well....hmmm.... I have read almost the intire topic..... As I do not know very much about history but reasonable enough... I do know that the Holy Roman Empire has nothing to do with the Romans.... But I also know that The Holy Roman Empire was not one country!!! So there is no country you can call the HRE.....

For example in Europa Universalis II all the countries that included the HRE where seperate countries.... far more fun to play!!! And then there was some thing that one countries king could be voted emperor of the HRE..... that was nice!!!

But for sure NOT Germany!!!! It did not exsist in that time!!!! Simple as that that is the same as calling: Castile, Navarra and Aragon>> Spain......

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800 - 1806

Holy Roman Empire

Political entity established by the emperor Charlemagne in 800 that, through several guises, lasted until 1806 when it was dissolved by Francis II. The title Holy Roman Empire was not adopted until the 13th century. Although the borders of the Empire shifted, the focus remained on the German states and from the 10th century onwards its rulers were the German kings, who sought papal affirmation, though did not always receive it. After 1500 the role of the Empire was drastically reduced.


Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

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It never was called Germany!!!! It were seperate countries...


For example in Dutch we have seperate words for Germany and Germans in the medieval time....

Germany now: Duitsland
Germans in the medieval times: Germanen

Germany is just not a country in the medieval time!!! There were very many differnt country wwith that thing HRE as there combined thing....